How does oil get to the rockers... (1 Viewer)

[74fj40]

Just rebiult the 3Fe in my 62 and am not sure I'm getting oil to the rockers.
Want to understand exactly how it works so I can troubleshoot.
So, if anyone could give me a brief explanation, I would really appreciate it.
The fsm doesn't really explain it very well.....
Thanks!!!

 

[Cruisergreg]

Don't know if the 3F is like the 2F, but if you've done a head gasket job, that could be the issue. The gasket is uni-directional and if it's installed backwards the valvetrain gets no oil.

 

[Mace]

To expand, there is a small hole in the block and head that sllows oil to flow to the rockers. If you install the headgasket upside down the hole will be blocked.

And yes, the oiling style for a 3F is the same as a 2F

 

[74fj40]

So, we're pretty sure the head gasket was installed correctly, but we're going to remove the head and check anyway - we see the hole under #4 rocker stand - I guess this is where it comes into the head, but what route does it take to get there? Also, is there a way of telling whether the head gasket is on upside down without removing the head?
Thanks

 

[Cruisergreg]

Also, is there a way of telling whether the head gasket is on upside down without removing the head?

It's been a few years, but IIRC that gasket isn't so much upside down than front to back for the problem to occur. You might do a search on here but I don't recall ever hearing of a verification check that didn't involve removing the head.

 

[FJ40Jim]

So, we're pretty sure the head gasket was installed correctly, but we're going to remove the head and check anyway - we see the hole under #4 rocker stand - I guess this is where it comes into the head, but what route does it take to get there? Also, is there a way of telling whether the head gasket is on upside down without removing the head?
Thanks

Yes, there is an idiotproofing feature that will show if the gasket is oriented correctly.

The headgasket has extra material on the back that sticks out past the rear face of the block/head by about 1/4". If the gasket is installed backwards, then the extra material is poking out the front of the block, where the waterpump needs to be. An idiot will cut/chisel off the excess gasket when installing the WP, rather than investigating the causative factor.

So, if you can get a mechanics mirror behind the engine, or your skinny hands, and confirm that there is headgasket sticking out at the rear of the block, then you are OK.

If the gasket is flush w/ rear of block/head, then it's time to R&R head to inspect gasket position.

 

[74fj40]

Well, I guess the idiotproofing worked, cause there's about 1/4 of head gasket sticking out the back of the head.
If the head gasket is on correctly and we primed the oil pump and there's pressure at the oil filter, what else could be causing the lack of oil delivery to the rockers?

Yes, there is an idiotproofing feature that will show if the gasket is oriented correctly.

The headgasket has extra material on the back that sticks out past the rear face of the block/head by about 1/4". If the gasket is installed backwards, then the extra material is poking out the front of the block, where the waterpump needs to be. An idiot will cut/chisel off the excess gasket when installing the WP, rather than investigating the causative factor.

So, if you can get a mechanics mirror behind the engine, or your skinny hands, and confirm that there is headgasket sticking out at the rear of the block, then you are OK.

If the gasket is flush w/ rear of block/head, then it's time to R&R head to inspect gasket position.

 

[Poser]

Did you use any kind of sealant on the head bolts when you installed them?


The oil should pass up through one head bolt on the passenger side and up to the third rocker shaft stand....if you look at the head on the passenger side where the rocker cover gasket meets the head, you will see a little round ball pressed into the head, blocking the machining port that was drilled to get the oil over to the rocker stand.


How long have you had it running? Have you had it running?


Priming the engine with a drill motor is a good idea, but you may need to rotate the engine in order to get oil through the holes in the cam so that it will feed the rocker shaft assembly, since the oil that goes up there comes from the number three cam bearing, through the cam shaft...and if the holes are not lined up, you will not get oil up there.....when the engine is rotating, the oil flows through the cam.

 

[AATLAS1X]

Holy crap I may finally have something possitive to ad here.

Story first.

I bought a 83 FJ40 from Texas several years ago that had 48k miles......I got it home and the valve noise was loud, I removed the valve cover to find out there was no oil getting to the top half. I did all the recon work before I brought it to work, this way I would not get flamed..................They tore it down and found nothing wrong................WTF .............They did it all again per Toyota and still nothing.......Manager called regional rep when he was a tech and he says theres only one other way, The rocker shaft was rotated 180 and the hole for oil was blocked.........Its not easy to make this mistake due to the cut out on the shaft but it happened to mine....

 

[Dynosoar]

Easy check
1. Pull the rocker assembly out.

2. Take off coil wire

3. Crank engine over 10-20 times and see if oil is getting to the head.

***** There is not a whole lot of oil splashing around up there. Many people adjust thier valves with the engine running and it makes little to no mess. So dont expect a large volume of oil to be sparaying everywhere. ******


Dynosoar

 

[nikos8]

If you forced the rocker assembly in place you won't be getting any oil. It is made to slide in place because of proper positioning. The "tube" that holds all the rockers has holes on it for oiling. If it was improperly installed then you won't get any oil. I did that, so that's how I know.

 

[jgordon]

take off the valve cover gasket. turn the engine on. Stick a feeler guage between the rocker arm and the valve stem. You should get a tiny bit of oil splash - basically just a few drops down the feeler guage. That seems like the least intrusive/destructive method of checking I can think of. It didn't look like my rockers were getting any oil until I did this either.

 

[2badfjs]

did you have new cam bearings installed?
i ran into the same thing when my 2f was built.
engine builder put the cam bearing in wrong.
i believe oil is sent to the top by one of the cam bearings, 2nd from the rear...i think.

that is my experience with no oil to the top.
you can see my fix at the ralley on my 40 if you want max.

i ran the motor without oil for a good couple hundred miles that way.

 

[74fj40]

Thanks for all your responses!!

Steve - Didn't use sealant on the head bolts.
So, one of the head bolts is different from the others? in order to allow passage of oil?
The little round ball - is that the oil galley plug?
We have had it running, but not for very long because there were some not so nice noises coming from the valve train...we were attributing the lack of oil to the top as a reason for this.
We did prime the oil pump manually, but are kind of concerned with keeping the engine started too long in order to get the oil going through the cam because of the valve train noise.

AATLAS1X - checked and the rocker assembly is installed correctly - the rocker stand with the extra hole in it for oiling is correctly oriented

Nikos8 - the rocker assembly fits like a glove - no force necessary to install it - it is correctly installed

Dynosaur/jgordon - Will try this when I get home

Jim - no new cam bearings, and existing bearings were installed correctly.....really like your website by the way!!!! (http://www.solidrockoff-road.com/index.html)

Question - if there is no oil going to the top, will the oil pressure guage still show pressure?

 

[2badfjs]

Q:Question - if there is no oil going to the top, will the oil pressure guage still show pressure?

yes, mine did.
the presure is read at the filter abouve the pump. if your getting a reading good chance you have presure.

the head bolt in question has a smaller shank,(between the head and threads)than all the others.


its a bad spellking day..........................i'm tired

one eye closed, halfway sleeping zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

and thanx for the compliment
stop by my booth at the ralley, i have a present for you!

 

[74fj40]

...and the head bolt with the smaller shank is the one that you have to remove the rocker assembly to get to right?

We'll see you Sunday!!

Q:Question - if there is no oil going to the top, will the oil pressure guage still show pressure?

yes, mine did.
the presure is read at the filter abouve the pump. if your getting a reading good chance you have presure.

the head bolt in question has a smaller shank,(between the head and threads)than all the others.


its a bad spellking day..........................i'm tired

one eye closed, halfway sleeping zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

and thanx for the compliment
stop by my booth at the ralley, i have a present for you!

 

[2badfjs]

...and the head bolt with the smaller shank is the one that you have to remove the rocker assembly to get to right?

We'll see you Sunday!!

i think that bolt goes thru the rocker tower

 

[Poser]

Thanks for all your responses!!

Steve - Didn't use sealant on the head bolts.
So, one of the head bolts is different from the others? in order to allow passage of oil?

ALL of the head bolts are identical....so that you CANNOT instal one in the 'wrong spot'...They are GI proof.

 

[AATLAS1X]

AATLAS1X - checked and the rocker assembly is installed correctly - the rocker stand with the extra hole in it for oiling is correctly oriented?

For giggles.............


Pull coil wire and crank her over and see if any oil is present.

Pull rocker assembly off and crang again. i know you checked this, but is the shaft with the oil hole lined up with oil feed?

Has it ran??

how long has it?

 

[AATLAS1X]

Question - if there is no oil going to the top, will the oil pressure guage still show pressure?

yes mine did..........