Horrible Brake Pulse - currently have Akebono ceramics - need pad recommendations (2 Viewers)

[2001LC]

12-6 play usually indicates loose wheel bearing. It may also indicate ball joint play (worn out). Any chance you're seeing upper ball joint boot 1/2 torn off?

I check ball joints while steering knuckle/wheels/tires on vehicle. By placing jack under LCA. Then with a 20lb pry bar under tire, I pry up and down repeatedly while watching ball joints for play (up and down movement)

Here's video of lower ball joint that's shot (bad).


This one is going bad in early stage. Up and down play is very minimal. It should not have any play.

 

[2001LC]

Personally I turn rotors whenever I put on new pads. On vehicle turning is great for a few reasons, but pricey! To save $$, I time my front brake pad R&R jobs, with front wheel bearing service. This way I can take front rotor to machine shop and have turned for ~$20 each.
With rear I do anytime as only caliper needs removing (no wheel hub or bearings to deal with).

I've heard more than one story of new aftermarket rotors being warped. A dial gauge is needed to check rotors for out of round (warp-are). Turning will usually take out minor warp-age. It also corrects uneven rotor ware, which wears pads even. Additionally it prepares the metal of rotor to except brake pad materiel when bedding in. Having fresh rotors to bed new pads onto, extend life of pads and eliminates most pulling along pedal & steering wheel pulsating and brake squeal (when proper set up used).

I always bed in new pads, by driving ~30 MPH and brake without coming to stop. I do this three times with short cool down in-between. I then use E-brake to stop letting rotors and pads cool without using the foot brake to come to a stop.

 

[bucfl]

12-6 play usually indicates loose wheel bearing. It may also indicate ball joint play (worn out). Any chance you're seeing upper ball joint boot 1/2 torn off?

Yes sir...

I checked yesterday and the UCA ball joint rubber is torn off and metal is exposed. LCA seems visually okay. I placed a 54mm socket and fish scale on amazon cart already.

I was planning on a bearing repack in November [cooler weather]. Do you think they will make it that long a wait?

 

[bucfl]

Personally I turn rotors whenever I put on new pads. On vehicle turning is great for a few reasons, but pricey! To save $$, I time my front brake pad R&R jobs, with front wheel bearing service. This way I can take front rotor to machine shop and have turned for ~$20 each.
With rear I do anytime as only caliper needs removing (no wheel hub or bearings to deal with).

I've heard more than one story of new aftermarket rotors being warped. A dial gauge is needed to check rotors for out of round (warp-are). Turning will usually take out minor warp-age. It also corrects uneven rotor ware, which wears pads even. Additionally it prepares the metal of rotor to except brake pad materiel when bedding in. Having fresh rotors to bed new pads onto, extend life of pads and eliminates most pulling along pedal & steering wheel pulsating and brake squeal (when proper set up used).

I always bed in new pads, by driving ~30 MPH and brake without coming to stop. I do this three times with short cool down in-between. I then use E-brake to stop letting rotors and pads cool without using the foot brake to come to a stop.

Yeah, i really wanted to do an on car rotor resurface but i was getting princes of $180 per axle!! $360 total job. Insane! My rotors were in great shape and all pads had an even wear except the passenger outside pad. Probably due to bearings/UCA ball joint.

 

[2001LC]

It will probably drive okay or about the same, until then.

But damage of loose wheel bearings and bad ball joints on the systems will continue with each mile driven. I've no way to say how bad it is or isn't now. How many miles you may drive or distance or road condition of each drive, all make a difference.

Loose wheel bearings also allow the hub, which rotor attaches too, to move around. This can effect pad wear. It also may cause ABS to set off in turns or very minor braking. The wheel speed sensor reads the hub as it turns. If hub wobbles, it affects wheel speed sensor ability to read wheel speed accurately.

Here's back side of hub flange. The wheel speed sensor reads the speed at which each tooth passes it.

If upper ball joint boot is torn. It can be replaced with OEM ball joint boot kit. If ball joint has play, you've two choices. New control arm, which includes ball joint. Or aftermarket ball joint (Sanki 555) as Toyota does not sell ball joints for 100 series. @cruiseroutfit sell the real deal. Sankei 555, what's the veredict ?.

I replace lower ball joints often, not so much the uppers.

Boots even more often than ball joint.

 

[bucfl]

Thx @2001LC !!

 

[ponytl]

Might I ask - why would anyone want cross drilled/slotted rotors on a 100 series? Are you all pushing your braking so hard, constantly, that a stock rotor isn't able to dissipate heat fast enough and you have constant brake fade?

because for $177 4 rotors and pads they work damn well and I pull an enclosed trailer very often @80mph... just say'n what works for me...

 

[toyotaspeed90]

because for $177 4 rotors and pads they work damn well and I pull an enclosed trailer very often @80mph... just say'n what works for me...

Not to start an unnecessary internet fight, but unless you are heating your brakes to the point of fading with standard rotors, you are reducing your braking power with the cross drilled units and increasing chances of rotor failure via cracks between the drilled holes.

Braking power is reduced because the friction surface area is reduced. Generally vehicles that are equipped (factory) with this type of rotor they have larger rotors and pads to compensate.

 

[ponytl]

Not to start an unnecessary internet fight, but unless you are heating your brakes to the point of fading with standard rotors, you are reducing your braking power with the cross drilled units and increasing chances of rotor failure via cracks between the drilled holes.

Braking power is reduced because the friction surface area is reduced. Generally vehicles that are equipped (factory) with this type of rotor they have larger rotors and pads to compensate.

so i guess you have done the math... to know the surface area you are no longer contacting... pad to rotor... and taken into account that the pad wears each time you apply the brakes and that "wear dust" acts as a lubricant between pad and disk... with the drilled disk... this acts much like your tires to the road... yes slicks give you more contact area (and build up more heat) but once there is lubricant (water) tossed into the mix you need to channel that away... just like the brake dust... you do the math... but you need to know the friction coefficient of the brake pad itself before you can make any statement that is valid...
long story short... you just don't know of what you speak...

 

[toyotaspeed90]

so i guess you have done the math... to know the surface area you are no longer contacting... pad to rotor... and taken into account that the pad wears each time you apply the brakes and that "wear dust" acts as a lubricant between pad and disk... with the drilled disk... this acts much like your tires to the road... yes slicks give you more contact area (and build up more heat) but once there is lubricant (water) tossed into the mix you need to channel that away... just like the brake dust... you do the math... but you need to know the friction coefficient of the brake pad itself before you can make any statement that is valid...
long story short... you just don't know of what you speak...

I learned the brake performance aspects from a friend who worked at, and designed a significant amount of systems for non exotics, a specialty brake performance company. They specialize in exotic cars (Ferarri, Lamborgini, Porsche) brake components and upgrades. The friend designed upgrades for Subarus and Evos when they weren't available.

He and I built some autox cars and I've also been racing them for quite some time. Through the years of being on forums with individuals who have raced these cars for decades - the short answer is yes, cross drilled rotors on the street don't increase any braking ability and generally the rotors never get warm enough to necessitate the cross drilled feature. Further, brakes work best within a temperature range and not getting them up to temp reduces braking power as well.

The problem with your analogy would be like comparing slicks from the 1960s to solid non vented rotors of the 1960s. It has nothing to do with today's components.

Brake rotors are almost always vented these days, which helps pull away dust. Pads are chamfered to help reduce and pull away dust. The components are designed to work in most everyday situations for that vehicle. For our vehicles that includes everyday driving, some off road, towing, etc.

Can you make parts have increased performance from the original/factory intent? Of course, but with anything, there's downsides. The downside of increasing the braking capacity within a higher operating temoerature (like certain pad materials, rotor materials, rotor design) means you will have reduced capacity at lower temperatures.

 

[toyotaspeed90]

because for $177 4 rotors and pads they work damn well and I pull an enclosed trailer very often @80mph... just say'n what works for me...

Our rigs are meant to tow up to 6500lbs... not exactly a massive amount of weight for towing. With that said - I assume you're intelligent enough that if the trailer is over a few thousand pounds (loaded) that you're set up with trailer brakes and a controller. This increases safety and control of both the car and trailer. It also significantly reduces the braking needs of the vehicle. If you're towing lower weights, stock components are just fine. So I fail to see how towing at a constant highway speed of 80mph means much for your braking needs.

 

[2001LC]

Key to braking, is use your transmission to engine brake on the down hills. No reason you'd overheat in normal driving no matter which rotors & pads you use.

 

[ponytl]

Our rigs are meant to tow up to 6500lbs... not exactly a massive amount of weight for towing. With that said - I assume you're intelligent enough that if the trailer is over a few thousand pounds (loaded) that you're set up with trailer brakes and a controller. This increases safety and control of both the car and trailer. It also significantly reduces the braking needs of the vehicle. If you're towing lower weights, stock components are just fine. So I fail to see how towing at a constant highway speed of 80mph means much for your braking needs.

just for some DA to give a worthless opinion is the only reason... and you did

 

[toyotaspeed90]

just for some DA to give a worthless opinion is the only reason... and you did

Enjoy your reduced braking at an increased cost and increased maintenance (eventual cracking if not braking rotors), and your inability to formulate an actual argument.

I'll enjoy our 01 LX as is.

 

[apdxyk]

Drilled and slotted Zimmermann rotors (or better) with redesigned calipers and pads may make sense for some, but our little ponies are not exactly racers.

Going back to this interesting mystery of funny brakes: what causes imbalance(s)? Quite a few variables per each unit discussed. Seems to be easier to replace units than hunt down the culprits, e.g. replace calipers, rotors, pads. Resurfacing the rotors off the axles is largely useless anyway, as the hub to rotor hat contact is never a parallel surface. And the rebuilt caliper may differ in quality from sample to another sample. I just had to return one caliper that wouldn't really fit geometrically to Rock Auto. I also had to return one of the two front rotors: the hat dimensions of the 2 allegedly identical rotors they sent me were different, and the wrong one already had scoring marks from a previous unsuccessful installation attempts. Yet RA tried to sell a defective item this time again. Not fun.

This time around I installed Centric Fleet Performance para-aramid pads 30607720, they come with all hardware and marketed as durable pads for pursuit vehicles, ambulances and that sort of Terminator scenarios. They also advertise no bedding necessary as they are scorched.

Rotors are Raybestos Specialty Truck 96797. Front wheels

So far I haven't noticed any earth-shattering difference either way. I am posting this for the record and will update if I and the units will live long enough.

 

[2001LC]

It has been said turning rotors are best done on the vehicle. Whereas doing it means no need to pull front wheel hub off. Then wheel bearings will not need servicing at time of brake job.

But I've done both on, and many more times off the vehicle having machine turn on lathe. I've not seen any difference in performance either way.

I bed new brake pads to fresh rotor surface every-time. No matter what manufactures claims. Habits are hard to break!