Hoping for some coaching on lowering the FJ (now Tom's build thread apparently) (1 Viewer)

[tdskip]

Thanks guys - encouraging that it may simply be fiddling around with it than anything more serious.

When the body of off the frame - to remove the lifters - will I have enough wiggle room to clear the shock mounts my pushing. / pulling on the body when lowering ? Should I remove that top bolt on the shock mount before trying to lower it?

I very much appreciate the eyes and brains on it, huge help. Thanks!

 

[tdskip]

@lcwizard - Thanks for the detailed feedback, let me research getting rid of the doubler. You nailed what this thing was set up to do, biting the bullet now and configuring it for its new intended purpose is good counsel.

I’m mentally stuck on the shimming as a way of lowering it. I love the idea, less disruptive than anything else I’ve been considering, but I don’t see how that would work with the way these amounts are set up.

Take the transmission mount as an example. The amount is designed to go on top of the part that’s been welded on to the frame. My idea was to cut off and then re-locate that flat mounting surface as indicated in the drawing. That was the least disruptive way of getting some additional clearance that I could come up with.

Totally open for ideas-I’m just not picturing what you suggested.

EDIT - are you suggesting sliding the horizontal mount underneath where it currently meets the extension on the frame and letting it hang from that spot? That I can picture. Clever idea if it fits and having it hang is OK.

 

[tdskip]

Looking at the body mount pictures and the fender pictures, it really looks like the body is 'off' front to back. The body blocks look to be leaning a bit in each picture as does the fender based upon the slotted holes.

The fenders may or may not be year correct but the holes are correct just bolted upwards using the lower slotted holes with the upper bolts. Somewhat surprised the fenders aren't leaning outwards at all.

Thanks John - I’ll have a chance to address that when I lower it back down .

 

[lcwizard]

@lcwizard - Thanks for the detailed feedback, let me research getting rid of the doubler. You nailed what this thing was set up to do, biting the bullet now and configuring it for its new intended purpose is good counsel.

I’m mentally stuck on the shimming as a way of lowering it. I love the idea, less disruptive than anything else I’ve been considering, but I don’t see how that would work with the way these amounts are set up.

Take the transmission mount as an example. The amount is designed to go on top of the part that’s been welded on to the frame. My idea was to cut off and then re-locate that flat mounting surface as indicated in the drawing. That was the least disruptive way of getting some additional clearance that I could come up with.

Totally open for ideas-I’m just not picturing what you suggested.

EDIT - are you suggesting sliding the horizontal mount underneath where it currently meets the extension on the frame and letting it hang from that spot? That I can picture. Clever idea if it fits bad having it hang is OK.

View attachment 1980306

I don't think you'll be dropping the motor. The top of the weld in mount is pretty close to where it should be. Dropping may put the oil pan too close to the diff

 

[tdskip]

I don't think you'll be dropping the motor. The top of the weld in mount is pretty close to where it should be. Dropping may put the oil pan too close to the diff

Got it - so ;

-leave the motor where it is
-get rid of the crawl box (sell it so I can drink heavily)
-without the crawl box the total transmission length will be shorter
-that will force me to relocate the transmission mounts in the frame anyway since the box will be forward
- The current height of the transmission should probably not be an issue at that point because it clears the cut out for the transmission hump easily at that point

Am I back with you?

Thanks!

 

[lcwizard]

it'll be tight but closer to where you want to be. Don't forget the wire nuts

 

[tdskip]

it'll be tight but closer to where you want to be. Don't forget the wire nuts

Oh fine - I suppose you want me to not use the giant rolls of lamp cord I bought for this project either

Thanks for the help - and the grills you off look great! Some very helpful links on your site as well.

 

[lcwizard]

Oh fine - I suppose you want me to not use the giant rolls of lamp cord I bought for this project either

Thanks for the help - and the grills you off look great! Some very helpful links on your site as well.

thanks,
I need to update the links. we've gotten new vendors over the last couple years like Dissent, Bowfin, Tandem and Lost Industries.
I like to see some good feedback before I jump in with praise . So far these four are well vetted.

 

[tdskip]

Wait - might I be able to address my rear transmission clearance issue by simply flipping the rotation of the current mount bolted to the transmission around 180-degrees?

Right now the ears on on the bottom, that would put the ears on the top where the yellow mark-up is on my prior post

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

As designed I believe the ears go on the bottom - They MIGHT mount upside down, but you might run into a conflict between your engine mount and the "bump" on the crossmember that is currently sitting above the ear.

Also - I am pretty confident your engine is in the right place and angled correctly - still not fully confident given I haven't done an auto-conversion but from what I'm looking at, I think it's in the right place...

 

[tdskip]

Drats! They look symmetrical in my picture above but that is probably colored by my wishful thinking...

 

[CreeperSleeper]

Hey Tom! Looks like you are getting right to it.

I figured I would put my opinion on here so all the purists can tell me how wrong I am.

Engine / drivetrain: Leave the engine and trans where it is. I agree that the doubler is overkill for what you want to do, but due to the rear axle being moved back from stock the rear driveshaft length and angle are fine. That being said, if I where you I would sell it and replace it with a split case out of a 60-Series. It will be stronger and you don't need stupid low. Especially with the automatic.

Body lift- As we discussed before, the 3" has to go. However, I would lower it down only as much as you can without lowering the trans. A 1" or 1.5" body lift won't look out of place and it will open you up for better tire options down the line.

Suspension- Personally, I would leave the shackle reversal in the front since it is already there and the steering geometry is dialed in. That automatically gives you a 2.5" lift in the front with the stock springs. Because of that, I would ditch the springs and shackles on the rear for a good soft ride 2.5" lift spring and stock height shackle. IIRC, the rear springs are either FJ60 or FJ55. You will need to measure them and cross reference. The spring specs are in the FAQ on the top of this forum. After that, I would buy the best shock that you can. I prefer Fox but YMMV.

Axles- For the rear, I would complete the disc brake conversion. I would also sell the entire 3rd sections on both the front and rear axles. IIRC, this 40 has 5.29 gears and a locker in the rear (maybe both ends... I can't remember). For the tire size you want to run, 5.29's are way to low. You also don't need a locker. I would try to find '79+ FJ40 or FJ60 3rds (they will bolt in) which will give you 3.73's and be open. That will work a lot better with your overall goal.

Oh, and I agree on getting rid of the wire nuts.

 

[tdskip]

I may leave the wire nuts just to drive everybody crazy - grin.

For those that may not have done the math on this I bought the rig from CreeperSleeper. All around good guy - even after he saw me try to maneuver the U-Haul auto transport trailer and almost take out one of their upstairs windows in the process.

Thanks for the build plan / ideas.

 

[tdskip]

I pulled the trans mount and had to trim 1/8 of an in off the ears but got it mounted and I looks like I have the room to start dropping the body.

Need to tighten everything full up still but looks like I’m past one immediate hurdle with Mud’s help.

 

[tdskip]

From what I recall, the transfer case holes are not a uniform circle. So you can't rotate

You could spend a bunch of time to redrill some holes though

Your memory was spot on John, it is asymmetrical

 

[tdskip]

I would HIGHLY recommend not having the mount under the brackets as a final solution. If either of the bolts loosen up or break, your drivetrain will end up on the ground

Agree, and thanks for pointing that out. This is just to make sure I get body where I want it. I may end up changing the transmission / doubler out anyway which would force a relocation anyway. I do, very much so, appreciate you raising the consideration.

Another thought on the 203. My green FJ55 started off similar: NV4500 to NP203 to one piece case. I got paranoid about the strength of the one piece case so I swapped it to an NP203 to split case. I wasn't hugely happy with it and was close to a Blackbox doubler and split case. I ultimately ended up with an NV4500 to split case.

I don't recall seeing an intended use or desired tire size. My old FJ40 ran 35" tires with SM465 and 4.11 gears in the axles. It could keep 65mph and the granny gear made up for a lack of gearing offroad. It did pretty well with a spring over on the Rubicon:

Cool picture!

This is all new to me - the cheap sports cars I am working on generally don't have transfer cases or doublers. Grin. I am planning on leaving it for now to get it up and running but after that I'm very open minded.

Intended use = mostly running around town and then being acceptable to drive the 60-90 minutes to get off pavement and on to mostly fire roads and green difficulty trails with very occasional blue.

The current rear axle bits will need to go, although it makes pushing it around by hand a good work out. Not sure if I can "simply" pull the ring and pinion in the pumpkin or if I have to replace the whole thing.

Front is not a locked diff, so that is a plus.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[CreeperSleeper]

With the automatic, you won't need the doubler. The tq converter makes it feel like lower gears when off road. It's kinda hard to explain... Here is a good calculator for ratios: Gear Ratio Calculator

As for the axles, they are drop out thirds, like a Ford 9". You just pull the axles shafts out enough to clear the carrier, unbolt it and pull it out. I'm sure that you could sell the 5.29 3rds complete and find some in 3.73. With the V8, TH350 auto, and 35's, 3.73 gears would be nice on the highway. 4.10's would be running a bit high on the rpms at highway speed IMO, but both will work.

 

[tdskip]

Thanks Chad - I've got some parts hunting to do!

 

[tdskip]

I should probably ask so I don’t insult anyone (or get ripped off) - what should 3.73 go for ballpark?

 

[lcwizard]

If you want to run med to hard trails...
It's a Land Cruiser so to not embarrass yourself when wheeling with a TJ, look for 40:1 or lower with an auto in low range or
80:1 with a manual. A V-8's effective powerband will drive all day long at 75 with 4:11s and 33s. . American cars didn't get
overdrives until the mid eighties and until the early eighties interstate speeds were 75 or 80. I remember my dad driving
the old Buicks and Pontiacs cross country , Az to Wisc , 85 most the way, 3:30s ( average, 2:90 pontiac, 3:42 Buick ) and small tires. V-8s are fine at 3500 all day.
The six is a bit taxed at that speed