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Holly Crap......this aint a good thing!

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by Landpimp, Mar 11, 2004.

  1. Landpimp

    Landpimp

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    This is on moms 97 fzj80. Noticed it this morning, been wondering why the steering was a bit off..........now I know!

    Notice the large gap between the arm and knuckle
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    what would cause the nuts to back off like this? its only been dealer serviced(so that rule me out :) the axle tube seals and all felts have been replaced at least once, knuckle bearings from what I recall have not been done. Does the lower arm need to come off to do the wiper seals? or for any other reason? I can't figure out why this happened. I can see no shims or anything on that side, the otherside looks like it has shims or at least a seal. Its been a while sense I have done a 80 knuckle.....so I kinda forget what gets taking apart.

    Something tell me the dealer has the bottom arm off and didn't torque it up right.....and its worked itself loose.

    Taking it in this afternoon to get fixed, she was just getting ready to drive 200+ miles friday........told he NO WAY! she can take my UZJ.

    I am gonna assume the knuckle bearing, tube seal are toast, the bolts/studs prolly need replacement.

    What do ya all think?
     
  2. shocker

    shocker

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    In order to install the wiper seals properly (i.e. not cut them up to fit them around the axle) you have to take the knuckle off. Since the steering arm also is the bottom trunion spindle, if they did it right they had to take it off.
     
  3. Darwood

    Darwood

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    Yeah that arm needs to come off to replace the seals. Take to top and bottom arm's off and your knuckle comes off. I'm pretty sure the knuckle has to come off to replace the seals. I don't know how you would replace them properly without doing this. Also your observation of the shim is correct. There isn't one on the bottom.

    So are the nuts coming off, or are the studs coming out?
     
  4. sleeoffroad

    sleeoffroad Supporting Vendor

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    FWIW, we check those before every wheeling trip. They do back off if the truck is used heavily, however never seen it on a street truck.
     
  5. Landpimp

    Landpimp

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    thats what I remembered..........service manager said no......I said yes ;) I have a feeeling its gonna be in interesting afternoon at the dealer ;)


    [quote author=shocker link=board=2;threadid=12951;start=msg119415#msg119415 date=1079031004]
    In order to install the wiper seals properly (i.e. not cut them up to fit them around the axle) you have to take the knuckle off. Since the steering arm also is the bottom trunion spindle, if they did it right they had to take it off.
    [/quote]
     
  6. Landpimp

    Landpimp

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    this is just moms(60+ year old lady) mall cruiser, never off road. So is there suppose to be a shim at the bottom or just the top.........I just can't remember.

    [quote author=sleeoffroad link=board=2;threadid=12951;start=msg119418#msg119418 date=1079031115]
    FWIW, we check those before every wheeling trip. They do back off if the truck is used heavily, however never seen it on a street truck.
    [/quote]
     
  7. Landpimp

    Landpimp

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    not sure its the studs or nuts......almost looks like the studs becuase there is still some treads showing.

    [quote author=Darwood link=board=2;threadid=12951;start=msg119416#msg119416 date=1079031074]
    Yeah that arm needs to come off to replace the seals. Take to top and bottom arm's off and your knuckle comes off. I'm pretty sure the knuckle has to come off to replace the seals. I don't know how you would replace them properly without doing this. Also your observation of the shim is correct. There isn't one on the bottom.

    So are the nuts coming off, or are the studs coming out?
    [/quote]
     
  8. G-Cat

    G-Cat SILVER Star

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    Was riding shotgun in Robin Hood's 80 when those nuts backed all-the-way-off. We were on the service road, driving about 30mph.
    Kept feeling funnier and funnier until the thing seperated and we drove into a ditch. He won the broken birfield award for that one. :doh: :doh: :doh:
     
  9. Scamper

    Scamper

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    Unless you split the wiper--and I don't think you want to do that--you won't be able to replace it without pulling the knuckle. That's fer sure.

    But unless my eyes deceive me, yer knuckes look to be mighty weepy with the grease/diff fluid goo. Looks to me that you're due to service that axle anyway. :doh:

    Doesn't really matter whether the bolts or the studs backed out...you need to drop the arm and check/reset the studs, then retorque.
     
  10. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    I have seen this before, always on a truck that has been apart before. What happens is the studs back out when the knuckle is disassembled and it is not caught. The knuckle gets reassembled with loose studs and a while down the road they start to back out.

    ALWAYS CHECK THE STUDS BEFORE KNUCKLE REASSEMBLY!

    I know of at least one "tricycle" :eek: because of this.
     
  11. Landpimp

    Landpimp

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    had the axle seals replaced and felts 20k ago.........dealer is the only one who has touched it.........

    this will be the 3rd time the axle tube seals will have been done, has 80k on it.

    [quote author=Scamper link=board=2;threadid=12951;start=msg119472#msg119472 date=1079037188]
    Unless you split the wiper--and I don't think you want to do that--you won't be able to replace it without pulling the knuckle. That's fer sure.

    But unless my eyes deceive me, yer knuckes look to be mighty weepy with the grease/diff fluid goo. Looks to me that you're due to service that axle anyway. :doh:

    Doesn't really matter whether the bolts or the studs backed out...you need to drop the arm and check/reset the studs, then retorque.
    [/quote]
     
  12. Beast II

    Beast II

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    Can't we just weld them together ??? One less thing to worry about... ::)
     
  13. e9999

    e9999 You want to do what...? Moderator

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    yup, Birfield soup...

    3 axle seal jobs already? Yikes! You don't have splines on the axle where the seals are, do you? :D

    E
     
  14. ppc

    ppc M Go Blue

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    My drivers side knuckle was serviced under warranty at 35K, both done by me at 77k and now the drivers side needs it again at 118K with a clicking birfield as well.

    Here is a brightness corrected version of your image that shows up a lot better
     
  15. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    John,
    It looks to me like the studs have loosened and it definitely needs an axle tube seal.
    The birfield optimists among us should take a close look so they'll recognize the symptoms.

    You're a good son for catching that for mom before it failed at 70 MPH on the interstate.

    :cheers:
    -B-
     
  16. Hltoppr

    Hltoppr

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    Yikes! I'm running outside to look at mine!

    -H- :eek:
     
  17. Bradass80

    Bradass80

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    I need to replace those studs on my truck also they are loose after almost every wheeling trip, Brad.
     
  18. Landpimp

    Landpimp

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    its at the dealer now, they know they are the only ones that have worked on it, they had the knuckle part at least once before. Service manager looked at.........said "its leaking" I said look again "DAMN......never seen that before"

    I'm not looking for anything free that not deserved........but I think we know why this happened.......it wasn't just wear and tear.......someone messed up and didn't check the studs like Dan said.

    and YES mom is VERY thankfull I noticed it, also found out there were gonna take the Cruiser on a road trip this weekend............you KNOW what would have happened :(

    she is driving my UZJ........:)
     
  19. Cruiserdrew

    Cruiserdrew SILVER Star

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    Have them replace the studs-the new ones have a torx drive on top which makes them easier to get tight in the housing. I agree, though, good catch. I believe Pat Takash had his back off and come out on the way home from the 80's Rubicon trip last summer. I check those bolts after every run, now I'll have to make it once per month.
     
  20. IdahoDoug

    IdahoDoug

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    Pimp,

    The ever suspicious birf service guy in me wonders if they actually replaced the inner axle seal this last time or ever. If you have an itemized receipt to check for these seals it might be worth it as 20k is WAAAY low for that life, and I know of many front axle seal jobs where they skip this out of ignorance. They think the felts are the source of the leak because that's where the stuff's coming out of. So they replace these and wonder what the little 0 seal in the kit is for (tossing into the trash).

    As for the shims, the 40s can be shimmed top and bottom and there's a dealer tool to guide their shim choice, but the 80 is only shimmed on the bottom. My 80 and most I've discussed this with have a shim on both sides (bottom only) that should simply be put back on reassembly. Unfortunately, if a tech loses one or decides he doesn't need to replace it and tosses it there is no way to measure it as this is a factory tool the dealers cannot get (according to a TMS USA buddy a few years ago). I bought a few shims for my repack and did some careful calculations to determine my left inner axle seal wore a bit at the 12 o'clock position and corrected accordingly. I'll know how I did on the next repack (still slight wear at 12 and I'll add another shim, switched seal wear to 6 I'll put in a thinner shim, etc). The right side was dead center wear. If you get a good tech, it would be nice to have him pull it out without destroying it and try to assess where the wear is. Then you can call me (PM me for my phone) and I'll tell you what to tell him as to shimming. It took me a long time to figure this out. He'll not likely have the shims on hand unless he orders them in advance. If the seal was indeed replaced 20k ago, then you must have an axle that's offset quite a bit in the tip of the axle housing and that would also explain the short seal life. Not sure you'll be able to pull all this off in the context of the dealer righting their wrong, etc but I'll help in any way for first right of refusal when your Mom sells....heh.

    By the way, I suspect inner axle seal wear and condition of the bronze spindle bushing are directly related.

    DougM
     
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