HJ47 stranded, EDIC clicking, turnover, no start (1 Viewer)

[gerg]

That relief valve is super easy to get to and not a complicated piece. I agree with the tow. Don't be tempted to make it work in a rush. I've destroyed more than one engine that way. I'd think a mechanical gauge is in order. Cheap and easy to install. To temporarily fit it to check pressure swap its location for the oil pressure sender on the block. Course there are several locations in the galley you can tap into.

 

[Dashash]

Just ordered replacement relief valve and spring. The reading I've been doing regarding that piece is that when it fails it results in an over-pressurization situation. Is there a failure mode that could result in an under-pressurization? I will also inspect the oil filter relief valve, drain oil, refill and install new filter, and see what happens.

You guys have been a great help.

 

[duncanrm]

The reading I've been doing regarding that piece is that when it fails it results in an over-pressurization situation. Is there a failure mode that could result in an under-pressurization? I will also inspect the oil filter relief valve, drain oil, refill and install new filter, and see what happens.

I did suggest it normally fails closed.. but it seems possible that it might fail open. I've not seen one fail open. I've changed 5-6 and its always been high pressure. I'm not hopeful its this, but it'll at least give you some insight into whether the pump is actually pumping or not.

The relief valve for the filter just results in a filter bypass - a failure of that valve shouldn't affect pressure.

How low was your oil.. you said it was near the very bottom of the dipstick.. were you parked on an angle? I'd consider topping it up and trying to start it again.. give it 10 seconds of idling. Very odd failure..

 

[gerg]

I agree it's a zebra. If your going to turn it over to assess pressure I'd remove the glow plugs as it will greatly reduce wear on the bottom end if it's being starved of oil and let you get more rpms out of the motor.

 

[Dashash]

Interesting comment about the angle...and with the low oil level on the dipstick...I think you're on to something. I was parked at work for ~12 hours in a parking spot that was indeed on an incline before my issues began.

With this new information, my plan of attack tomorrow will be to roll it into a level spot and add a quart or so of oil. It was fairly low on dipstick.

I'm feeling a little embarrassed right now, gents. Will report results tomorrow.

 

[Dashash]

Is the oil scavenge that sensitive to incline? I would think the pickup would be in the very bottom of the oil pan, but I have no idea. I'm very hopeful you're right.

 

[duncanrm]

Is the oil scavenge that sensitive to incline? I would think the pickup would be in the very bottom of the oil pan, but I have no idea. I'm very hopeful you're right.

I wouldnt have thought your pickup would be out of the oil.. but its just such an odd failure, complete loss of oil pressure after being parked. I just think its worth ruling simple stuff out.. let it idle for 10-15secs.. as I said, old 2Hs when left to sit for a week or so do take their own sweet time to build pressure. Maybe the angle somehow contributes to this loss of oil pump prime faster? I'm not sure.

 

[duncanrm]

Also.. how cold is it where you are.. and what oil are you running?

 

[Dashash]

It's 30-40 F during the day. Running 15W-40.

 

[mongoose2231]

I'd be curious to see what this is as well...

 

[Dashash]

Added oil to full line. Turned it over, gave it a good 20 seconds of run time before shutting it off. Still no oil pressure at mechanical gauge. Really big bummer.

 

[sved]

Try to pressurise the oilsump up to 2-3 bar.
You can connect a air- hose to the dipstick tube with some flexhose fabrication. The pressure will force the oil up in the oil pump and it hopefully will start pumping. This is a nice trick if your pump is drained.

 

[Dashash]

Interesting trick. I'll give that a shot tonight after work.

 

[gerg]

So I've tried that air pressure trick and it sort if works but an easier trick is to overfill the oil pan by like an extra gallon and slowly turn the engine over by hand with glow plugs out. This raises the level of the oil in the pan so it's as high as the oil pump gears and it wets them. Once they are wet they become air tight and can create Vacume which sucks the oil up the feed tube easier. I'm hoping you have only lost prime on your oil pump which happens but not this easily. You can tell the oil pump is pumping if you leave the port open you used for the mechanical gauge on the side of the block and oil comes out. Once oil come out you know your gears are for sure pumping. Drain the extra gallon out. You can then hook your mechanical gauge up again and turn the engine over with no glow plugs in and see if the mechanical oil pressure gauge reads pressure.

 

[sved]

If you measure the continuity on the oil pressure switch during starting/pumping you can see immediately if it is building up pressure. Saves making a mess .

 

[hj 60]

Parking nose down is way better in starting without the edic cutting out, (for my hj) it can stand for weeks and not cut out, park nose up and start after a few days and edic cuts out.
Has new relief valve and old one had enough scratches but did not stick/fail.
Maybe try to pull it without glowplugs in 3/4th gear to get better pressure than starter can provide.
Or lift the rear and start it a few seconds?

 

[Dashash]

Buddy towed me to the shop on base. Got the relief valve pulled, put a gallon of extra oil in, and pulled glow plugs. Cranked engine by hand, but alas, no oil came out of hole where relief valve was. Thinking of dropping the oil pan tomorrow. It appears either my pump is not working at all, or the pick-up line is really clogged.

How difficult is it to change out oil pump? New territory for me.

Picture 1 is relief valve. Looks normal to me and came out easily. Pic two is its access hole. No oil came out when engine turned over.

 

[duncanrm]

I do still wonder if its just lost prime.. I'm not sure you'll get enough of a crank to re-establish prime via the starter alone, and certainly you'll never get enough cranking it by hand.. before anything else, I would still reinstall the glows, over-fill the sump, pressurise the sump with air and try idling for 10 seconds or so..

Also.. why not get as much oil into the hole where the pressure relief valve came out, maybe it'll help the pump reprime. Messy, but worth it before doing anything else..

After that.. I would drop your sump first and check the pickup.. Oil pump is a big job and the sump has to come off anyway. You'll need the factory manual.. Here is a link to the PDF of it I have.. 2h-engine.pdf

All of the parts for the oil pump rebuild are readily available.

 

[Dashash]

I do still wonder if its just lost prime.. I'm not sure you'll get enough of a crank to re-establish prime via the starter alone, and certainly you'll never get enough cranking it by hand.. before anything else, I would still reinstall the glows, over-fill the sump, pressurise the sump with air and try idling for 10 seconds or so..

Also.. why not get as much oil into the hole where the pressure relief valve came out, maybe it'll help the pump reprime. Messy, but worth it before doing anything else..

After that.. I would drop your sump first and check the pickup.. Oil pump is a big job and the sump has to come off anyway. You'll need the factory manual.. Here is a link to the PDF of it I have.. 2h-engine.pdf

All of the parts for the oil pump rebuild are readily available.

I like that idea. Will try to pressurize sump tomorrow and see if I can get some pressure.

After examining the oil system diagram, it appears that the oil pump consists of two gears, and it's hard to imagine these failing. I've attached the diagram from my FSM for future readers.

 

[duncanrm]

The pumps do wear.. tolerances increase and they are more difficult to prime as they age. I'm pretty sure this is where you are now.

Parked on a incline (front of the car uphill?), low oil level... maybe its just that combination that has caused it..

I'm not personally aware of any 2H pump failures whilst parked, or pickups falling off.. but anything possible.

Also.. I'm wrong, the sump doesnt have to come off.