Anyone considered adding a modern, high-output alternator (like this Balmar with regulator) in the space where the air pump used to live? Seems like that it might be pretty simple and would allow the stock system to stay completely isolated from the house battery.
High output alternator in place of air pump (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter CurtB
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That is one very expensive alternator, there are plenty of alternators with the same or more capability for 1/10th the cost. Any LS alternator is at least 140a and a V-belt pulley can be swapped on.
That being said, leaving the stock alternator means you don't get any of the benefits of the better alternator for the rest of the vehicle's electrics.
That being said, leaving the stock alternator means you don't get any of the benefits of the better alternator for the rest of the vehicle's electrics.
- Thread starter
- #4
Heard. That isn't necessarily the one I'd buy. But, if you are adding a lithium house battery, you're going to be dropping some coin on DCtoDC chargers etc if you're going to use the stock alternator.
I like the idea of leaving the systems separate....the stock system works fine for those loads...no need to upgrade that I can see.
DickM
SILVER Star
My 60 is set up with an alternator in the smog pump location. It has been this way for 4-5 years with no issues. I don't recall the specific alternator model, but It is not a high dollar, super high output one, as I am "economical" (cheap). It's sole purpose in life is to charge the aux battery that runs the fridge, stereo, winch and various other house loads that are fed from a Blue Sea fuse box. It is, as you suggest, independent of the stock alternator system.
- Thread starter
- #8
I do have a second battery. But our stock alternators won't fully recharge a deep cycle battery. They "kind of" work but aren't great. I charge the second battery off of solar when conditions are right, but if I get a stretch of clouds it takes the stock alternator forever to put back 30 or 40 amps into the deep cycle.
You could run a second small denso modern mini 40 or 50 amp alternator setup to specifically charge and maintain your second battery. Those mini alternators are compact and very price reasonable.
I’m a strong proponent of using solar panels to charge the 2nd (and primary) battery. A bigger alternator installed where the stock one is (Mean Green) will be more than adequate to charge both batteries while driving and then you can have unlimited silent charging power at camp to run a fridge forever - when using solar panels.
If you’ve got 8 Amps of solar panels, you don’t even need to replace the stock alternator. You don’t even need an alternator.
I drove 1200 miles with a 4A solar panel lashed to my roof rack and a dead alternator. Drove during daylight hours.
If you’ve got 8 Amps of solar panels, you don’t even need to replace the stock alternator. You don’t even need an alternator.
I drove 1200 miles with a 4A solar panel lashed to my roof rack and a dead alternator. Drove during daylight hours.
- Thread starter
- #11
I hear you and agree for the most part. The last time we were out we ran into about 4 consecutive days of rain/overcast AND we were camping in the woods so what little light we got didn't do much. I have enough juice to last for about 48 hours without any additional charge. We pulled about 40 amps out of our 90 amp lead acid deep cycle. Running the stock alternator would take HOURS to replace those amps.
The appeal of a second alternator is that I can leave the stock system alone...it works fine for its load. And, if I upgrade to an AGM or Lithium, I can get a alternator and regulator that is designed for that battery. I'm just kind of thinking it out right now...
Here’s another monkey wrench to throw into the works. Just some battery charging rambling of my own:
A popular 2nd battery chemistry to have is AGM. They’re a good compromise between performance and price.
Their maximum charge rate recommended is 0.3C, which would be 30 amps max for a 100Ah battery during the bulk charging phase.
This is the max current allowed, but lower charging rates are recommended to increase battery life. Wet cell lead acid are typically suggested to charge at no faster than 0.2C, which is even slower.
Below are the typical Charge times for an AGM battery:
A fancier but much more expensive option ($800 for 100Ah) would be to use a lithium iron phosphate battery as your 2nd battery with a dedicated charger and regulator, but the affordable ones (that are still really expensive) still can only charge at a maximum 0.5C rate during the bulk stage. That’s 50A max for a 100Ah battery. Lower charge rates are recommended to increase battery life for these too.
So no matter how you cut it, AGM, wet lead acid or LifePO4, you’re still looking at HOURS to charge a partially discharged battery of either type regardless of how big of a charger you’ve got.
My 2F at faster idle (to increase output to the alternator) burned about 1 gallon of gasoline/hour charging the battery.
Here’s something else,
I was burning up alternators every year or so when camping long periods of time (months) in Mexico, recharging my 2nd lead acid battery that was used for a water maker and little fridge.
I talked to an old timer at an alternator repair shop about it and he said, if you’re using an alternator to charge discharged batteries, you should bring along a spare alternator because it’s not going to last very long.
Which indeed was my experience.
He said that alternators aren’t designed to regularly charge deeply discharged batteries. The high current draw for extended periods of time burns them out.
And I couldn’t argue with him about that, because that’s exactly what was happening to mine.
A popular 2nd battery chemistry to have is AGM. They’re a good compromise between performance and price.
Their maximum charge rate recommended is 0.3C, which would be 30 amps max for a 100Ah battery during the bulk charging phase.
This is the max current allowed, but lower charging rates are recommended to increase battery life. Wet cell lead acid are typically suggested to charge at no faster than 0.2C, which is even slower.
Below are the typical Charge times for an AGM battery:
A fancier but much more expensive option ($800 for 100Ah) would be to use a lithium iron phosphate battery as your 2nd battery with a dedicated charger and regulator, but the affordable ones (that are still really expensive) still can only charge at a maximum 0.5C rate during the bulk stage. That’s 50A max for a 100Ah battery. Lower charge rates are recommended to increase battery life for these too.
So no matter how you cut it, AGM, wet lead acid or LifePO4, you’re still looking at HOURS to charge a partially discharged battery of either type regardless of how big of a charger you’ve got.
My 2F at faster idle (to increase output to the alternator) burned about 1 gallon of gasoline/hour charging the battery.
Here’s something else,
I was burning up alternators every year or so when camping long periods of time (months) in Mexico, recharging my 2nd lead acid battery that was used for a water maker and little fridge.
I talked to an old timer at an alternator repair shop about it and he said, if you’re using an alternator to charge discharged batteries, you should bring along a spare alternator because it’s not going to last very long.
Which indeed was my experience.
He said that alternators aren’t designed to regularly charge deeply discharged batteries. The high current draw for extended periods of time burns them out.
And I couldn’t argue with him about that, because that’s exactly what was happening to mine.
DickM
SILVER Star
A 100 watt Renogy suitcase panel with a Renogy MPPT charge controller and a homemade 30" 8 gauge extension cord work great for me. The truck can be in the shade, and the panel in the sun. The controller plugs into the hardwired SAE plug on the battery that the line voltage maintainer also uses. The controller and cord store inside the folded panel, so it is grab and go setup for multiple vehicles, and it has bluetooth app for monitoring performance from the cell phone.
I am very happy with it.
- Thread starter
- #14
That is kind of why I was looking at those heavy duty alternators that ARE designed to charge deeply discharged batteries. I am also considering a lithium house battery but will probably wait another year or two for prices to continue to drop.
I have used a similar Renogy setup as well. It worked fine but I'm really trying to simplify things. I have 200 watts of solar permanently mounted on the roof top tent. Works great as long as I'm in the sun every third day. The alternator will be a backup for bad weather stretches like I recently had.
I have these going on .......
NOS new NOT Reman NON USA HIGH OUTPUT , requires a external regulator .......
got those too genuine NipponDenso JAPAN
these Can mount in either drivers side LOWER Location like NON USA example below ,
or
Passengerside Upper 2F , F1.5 and 3F carb \
NOS new NOT Reman NON USA HIGH OUTPUT , requires a external regulator .......
got those too genuine NipponDenso JAPAN
these Can mount in either drivers side LOWER Location like NON USA example below ,
or
Passengerside Upper 2F , F1.5 and 3F carb \
Here's my thinking, with a desmogged and way too lived-in and abused to ever want to keep stock truck (10 years of DD on zero budget does that):
If you're thinking of a second alternator to take up space on the left side of a desmogged 2F...
- You probably wanna deal with the crappy OEM power steering, too, and put a nice reliable Saginaw pump in the Smog location, because PS pumps handle getting wet/dirty a lot better than alternators
- CS144 alternator, maybe plus a custom rewinding for more amps, is gonna an incredible performance/price/reliability/serviceability combo. If anything *does* go bad on a trip, you'll be set up to grab a replacement meant for a van/box truck/etc. at any part store in North America, and $50 in spare bearings could give you 30 years of worry-free DIY servicing if you don't screw up your custom windings doing something dumb (in which case, collect stock CS144, return to ~140ish amps, start learning how to wind coils.)
There isn't gonna be any bolt-on solution for any of this, but I'm confident in saying that after modifying a Saginaw bracket meant for an FJ40 with just an angle grinder and lots of washers, a small MIG welder and a good bench vice were the only things keeping me from just making my own bracket from scratch. Same goes for adapting the stock PS bracket to take basically any beefy alternator meant for a pickup/van/medium duty truck. I can't speak to difficulties with pulleys, but I know you can source a CS144 that'll take a pulley that plays well with your v-belts.
All of that said? I'm ultimately gonna put OBA where my PS pump was, and a second battery instead of a second alt. If I ever start needing/wanting more amperage (my DIY e-bike and batteries say: yes), I'm going to adapt a CS144 or similar to the stock 2F alt location, and maybe rewind it, hoping for 200A pretty modestly. A really good hybrid starting/deep cycle battery for the main one, then my own DIY lithium ion brick or a deep cycle gel battery for the 'house' side, and the ~600A solenoid to hook them both up in parallel for winching are gonna handle *basically* any 12V challenge I can personally think of, with a fridge being the big thing, for me, especially if I have belt-driven OBA...
But, that's just me. If I had a *nice* 60, an OEM bigger alternator and a dual battery setup with good off-the-self or DIY isolator electr(on)ics would probably be very close to a have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too.
If you're thinking of a second alternator to take up space on the left side of a desmogged 2F...
- You probably wanna deal with the crappy OEM power steering, too, and put a nice reliable Saginaw pump in the Smog location, because PS pumps handle getting wet/dirty a lot better than alternators
- CS144 alternator, maybe plus a custom rewinding for more amps, is gonna an incredible performance/price/reliability/serviceability combo. If anything *does* go bad on a trip, you'll be set up to grab a replacement meant for a van/box truck/etc. at any part store in North America, and $50 in spare bearings could give you 30 years of worry-free DIY servicing if you don't screw up your custom windings doing something dumb (in which case, collect stock CS144, return to ~140ish amps, start learning how to wind coils.)
There isn't gonna be any bolt-on solution for any of this, but I'm confident in saying that after modifying a Saginaw bracket meant for an FJ40 with just an angle grinder and lots of washers, a small MIG welder and a good bench vice were the only things keeping me from just making my own bracket from scratch. Same goes for adapting the stock PS bracket to take basically any beefy alternator meant for a pickup/van/medium duty truck. I can't speak to difficulties with pulleys, but I know you can source a CS144 that'll take a pulley that plays well with your v-belts.
All of that said? I'm ultimately gonna put OBA where my PS pump was, and a second battery instead of a second alt. If I ever start needing/wanting more amperage (my DIY e-bike and batteries say: yes), I'm going to adapt a CS144 or similar to the stock 2F alt location, and maybe rewind it, hoping for 200A pretty modestly. A really good hybrid starting/deep cycle battery for the main one, then my own DIY lithium ion brick or a deep cycle gel battery for the 'house' side, and the ~600A solenoid to hook them both up in parallel for winching are gonna handle *basically* any 12V challenge I can personally think of, with a fridge being the big thing, for me, especially if I have belt-driven OBA...
But, that's just me. If I had a *nice* 60, an OEM bigger alternator and a dual battery setup with good off-the-self or DIY isolator electr(on)ics would probably be very close to a have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too.
