HELP with weird steering and braking issues!!! (1 Viewer)

[dclee]

Guys -

I don't think these are 80Con dealbreakers, but give me the 411 on these two issues, if you'd please:

1.) I seem to have developed an ABS problem. Happened after pulling everything apart to re-gear the truck. I figure I must have messed up a front sensor when playing around in the knuckle. Anyway, here's what happens now. Start the truck, ABS light comes on, does its check, goes out. Then, the first time I hit the brake, it comes on and stays on. Drives and brakes fine, and I know how to cadence brake, so I'm not too concerned about not having ABS until after 80Con. I checked all three lockers and they work fine, so no problems there (I was worried the ABS system might hinder Center Difflock actuation, but it's fine). However, every once in a while, with no discernable pattern, I'll hit the brakes and the truck will swerve quickly to the right, which seems to me that the left front caliper is not grabbing the disk. Then I'll feel the pedal pulse (like, well, ABS actuation) and then it straightens out and drives and brakes fine. Quite disturbing when it happens, but it only happened maybe two or three times today. Drove fine yesterday, but today, the problem just started up. I've made no changes between then and now. Any ideas?

2.) My steering wheel is cocked by about 1/8. It's bad enough that the right turn signal almost doesn't engage because the wheel is cocked over so far. I still get the full 3.5 turns lock-to-lock. By my eyeball I can get ~1 7/8 turns to the right and ~1 5/8 turns to the left. It happened when I put on the 6" lift. At one point, up on stands, something slipped and the two front wheels turned violently to one side. Since then, the steering wheel has been cocked. I know sometimes people will hit rocks and knock it out a little bit, but this much seems like a lot. Did I twist something or shear gear teeth somewhere?

BTW, I have an appointment at Folsom Toyota for both problems tomorrow morning. They are both safety issues that I want to have addressed ASAP.

TIA,

 

[Tools R Us]

1.) Possibly a broken ABS sensor? Loads of info here, try the search.

2.) Did you adjust the drag link when you put the lift on? By lifting the truck, the drag link is effectively shortened, needs to be lengthened to center the wheel.

 

[dclee]

Yes, stupid me. I adjusted every other arm possible under there, but not the steering arm. Thanks!

Not sure on number 1.), would a broken sensor cause the weird brake behavior, or is it just coincidence and I have a slightly sticking caliper?

Thanks again,

 

[IdahoDoug]

Whoo, the dealer's going to eat you alive.

It sounds like the left front sensor is perceiving that it's locking and the caliper is being cycled by the ABS system. This reduction in braking compared to the full braking from the right caliper will cause very heavy pull to the right.

My guess is that the front sensors were out when the truck slipped off the jackstands? If so, I'd guess the left one got caught when the wheels turned and it or its harness was damaged. The only way to fix this is a new harness from Toyota and they aren't cheap. You could get a used one, which I would not be afraid of at all. If the sensors were NOT out, were the axles loose so the flopping axle smacked the sensor? If it was all buttoned up then this may NOT be the case, but I'm guessing you'll reply that indeed these could have happened.

The reason it brakes fine when the ABS light is lit is that the system is deactivated, so you aren't getting that LF caliper cycling. Your calipers are fine, though I'm sure the dealer will want to replace them and everything including the brake pedal pad (-:

The way to confirm this would be to cancel your appointment, pull the ABS fuse, and drive it around for a week. You'll likely find the brakes are fine, but your ABS system is not. One benefit of the dealer is they may be able to pull a diagnostic that will say "Front Left wheel sensor malfunction" or similar. Just be ready for the "Mr. Smith we don't think you should drive it out of here until we replace the ABS system, the front calipers, rotors, pads, and your muffler bearing. It's unsafe, and our policy prohibits it."


DougM

 

[aksnowryder]

I'm having the same exact problem with my 93. I've pulled all the sensor wires and wd40'd them. Hoping that helps. I think my problem stems from a misshap this spring when EVERYTHING got wet! I've pulled the ABS fuse and brakes work great. I was also having problem with the center diff lock, but WD cured that. Anyway, I've ordered a FSM from Toyota and hope to be able to pull the codes once that gets here to figure it out for sure. But meanwhile, I'm betting the WD will fix it. Here are a couple of pics of my screwup this spring for your lauging pleasure.
:whoops:

 

[dclee]

My guess is that the front sensors were out when the truck slipped off the jackstands? If so, I'd guess the left one got caught when the wheels turned and it or its harness was damaged. The only way to fix this is a new harness from Toyota and they aren't cheap. You could get a used one, which I would not be afraid of at all. If the sensors were NOT out, were the axles loose so the flopping axle smacked the sensor? If it was all buttoned up then this may NOT be the case, but I'm guessing you'll reply that indeed these could have happened.

Thanks Doug. ABS fuse it is, at least until after Rubicon. Actually the truck did not slip off the jack stands, just the steering gear slipped, but that problem has been addressed (or will be tomorrow). On the buggered sensor, that's kind of what I figured it was. On that side, I can't remember if I bolted in the sensor before slipping in the axle and birf, but I do seems to remember more trouble slipping it in than the other side. I don't think I would have been that stupid, as I've done this plenty of times, but you never know. Could've very well bolted it in first, then tried to put in the birf, thus buggering up the sensor. I'll order another sensor from CDan and see if that fixes it.

Thanks,

 

[OGBeno]

Hey Derek...

Got the same problems here and mine was a cracked ABS housing into the DS (US) knuckle housing. I super glued it back together and things worked fine again for a bit (IE: no light coming on after iginition), but now the intermittant light comes on again every once in awhile. The brakes work fine (as far as I can tell), but I think the ABS system is NO-OP.

I found a used one at a junk yard in fact, and tore out the entire DS sensor and harness up to the ECU...just haven't had time to replace it. IIRC the yard charged me $25 for the unit. Unkle Toy charges about $300 or so, IIRC.

I also pulled the fuse.

Best.
-onur
Akron, OH

 

[Kalawang]

Hey Derek...

Got the same problems here and mine was a cracked ABS housing into the DS (US) knuckle housing. I super glued it back together and things worked fine again for a bit (IE: no light coming on after iginition), but now the intermittant light comes on again every once in awhile. The brakes work fine (as far as I can tell), but I think the ABS system is NO-OP.

I found a used one at a junk yard in fact, and tore out the entire DS sensor and harness up to the ECU...just haven't had time to replace it. IIRC the yard charged me $25 for the unit. Unkle Toy charges about $300 or so, IIRC.

I also pulled the fuse.

Best.
-onur
Akron, OH

Superglue doesn't last more than a month especially if it gets wet once in a while. Try a waterproof epoxy like the ones used to repair plumbing.


Kalawang

 

[OGBeno]

Superglue doesn't last more than a month especially if it gets wet once in a while. Try a waterproof epoxy like the ones used to repair plumbing.


Kalawang

Thanks for the righteous suggestion...why didn't I think of of that...I friggin upgrade everything else, might as well with the glue I use too!!

Best.
-onur

 

[powderpig]

Ditto on what doug is saying, and even if the single tip(silverish end) is slightly bent it will not function properly, if this is straight, then look to the wiring. As for the steering wheel, you will need to adjsut the drag link between the pitman arm and the passenger side knuckle to get the steering straight. No real need for the dealer to get involved on either of these things. If in a pinch before the 80con trip, just pull the abs fuze and deal with it when you return. have fun, wish I was there. later robbie

 

[dclee]

If in a pinch before the 80con trip, just pull the abs fuze and deal with it when you return. have fun, wish I was there. later robbie

Thanks Robbie. Wish you could make it this year as well.

For the steering, I think I'll just put a piece of tape where center currently is on my wheel (for a reference), and deal with it after the Rubicon trip. As you said, I'm pressed for time.

On the ABS thing, I did pull the fuse and it had no problems on the way to work this morning. However, on impulse, while stopped at a light, I tried locking the center diff and no go. So obviously, if I can't lock the center (and therefore the other diffs), I will be in a bind on the Rubicon. How about this compromise: pull the fuse for the drive to the trailhead (as I'm most afraid of the problem at highway speeds!), then pull the fuse once on the trail. I figure I'll be going so slow that if the problem occurs, it will have minimal impact (unless I'm perched on a ledge and the only thing holding my upright is my brakes...). What do you all think?

Thanks,

 

[NorCalDoug]

Does the CDL switch work with the ABS fuse installed? If so, you'll be in low range on the trail anyhow, so that shouldn't be an issue, right?

hmmm...note to self: Derek's brakes are funky...make sure I'm in front and not behind him on the way up Cadillac Hill...

 

[powderpig]

sometimes you need to get differential rotation of the two drive shaft to lock the center. If on dry pavement it may not happen till you turn a corner. Sooooooooo did you allow it some time to lock up or jsut sit and turn it on and hope it locks? May want to try it again. When is the 80's on the con this year any way?
Yea Doug I would not want to be behind derek with bad brakes either, hope no one else see this or he's leading all the way. later robbie

 

[dclee]

Yea Doug I would not want to be behind derek with bad brakes either, hope no one else see this or he's leading all the way. later robbie

Looks like I've got tailgunner...

Brakes work great with the ABS fuse pulled! I didn't rock it or anything, and didn't use the switch (actually switched the T-case into Lo instead). I thought at least the indicator light would come on, even if it's blinking while trying to lock up, like the front and rear lights. But no light, no nothing. Maybe the center diff light behaves differently. I'm going to find a gravel patch at lunch and try it again. ABS fuse is still pulled.

Thanks,

 

[NorCalDoug]

... When is the 80's on the con this year any way? ...

Didn't Christo tell you?

This upcoming Thursday - 9/22 through Saturday or Sunday (some are leaving Saturday, some on Sunday).

 

[powderpig]

Derek you have a CDL. if you do you need to engage this as well if you have done a pin 7 mod or removed the sensor lead. If not then I do not know what is up, did not think the ABS stuff was tied into the CDL computer like that.
No Doug christo did not tell me about this at all, but no worries I need to work any way. Hope you guys have fun, will be thinking about you and the cali gang.
Dont let Derek use you guys as bowling pin on the old sluice. later robbie

 

[Hants]

I'm pretty sure that once the switch is installed, you have to use the switch to engage the CDL -- it will not auto-engage when shifting the transfer case to low.

I did the Pin7 Mod (which, IIRC, only affects the shift points) concurrently with CDL switch installation, so I'm not certain of the behavior without it.


I have a similar problem since doing my front axle service: intermittant surging and hard pulling to the right when slowing from 50 or so. I removed and cleaned the ABS sensors during the service (no damage noticable). Neither ABS nor any other unusual dash lights. The surging feels like warped rotors and only occurs with hard-right pulling. So far 4 times in 3 weeks (first time was during my first stop from freeway speeds after completing the birf job. Rotors and pads are new (about 1K miles), and I don't brake hard.

Other potentially relevant facts: I installed OME 2.5 Medium at the same time as birf job. As I had inspected and packed the wheel bearings with the brake job, I didn't disassemble/inspect/pack them this time.

My brain was guessing caliper problem (I know they need to be rebuilt and I have the kit on the shelf), but now I'm wondering if I need to go down the ABS troubleshooting path first?

 

[-uhuru-]

yo derek i have the same problem with my rig after the 6 inch lift

but if you engage your CDL doesn't it desable the ABS anyways ... don't see a need for removing the fuse on the trail ... just for the interstate

 

[Rich]

I'm pretty sure that once the switch is installed, you have to use the switch to engage the CDL -- it will not auto-engage when shifting the transfer case to low.

I did the Pin7 Mod (which, IIRC, only affects the shift points) concurrently with CDL switch installation, so I'm not certain of the behavior without it.

The pin 7 mod has no effect on transmission shifting. The only effect it has is to prevent the center diff from automatically locking when the transfer case is shifted into low.

 

[dclee]

Thanks for all the help guys! Checked locker function and all three work as advertised, even with the ABS fuse pulled. I guess the CD light doesn't blink like the other two, it's either on with the locker or off with the locker.

Anyway, looks like I'm good for now. Fuse is pulled and I'll diagnose the sensors after Rubicon.

Thanks again,