Help with axle roll steering bars and tie rods relocation?

[rcrracingfan29]

I need help deciding how to do steering bar and tie rods how are they done when rolling axle for correct front end driveshaft angle I can do cut and roll no problem just need help with the steering. Do you typically leave bars below leaf springs with a drop pitman arm?orcan you buy brackets to relocate them any help will be appreciated help????the reared turned out good

 

[mattcamp]

When you attach the steering tie rod to the front hole is it at an extreme angle or is it pretty level? It looks like you have a drop Pittman arm already. I can't tell if those are hi-steer arms, maybe you need higher hi-steer arms. Some people make a z shaped steering link to eliminate the weird angle. Any time you do a crazy huge lift on short leaf springs things get into a strange engineering situation.

 

[69LC]

Do a search for “cut-and-turn” or CnT.

Don’t use a crazy z-drag link. Keep the angles in check and turn the knuckles to allow your pinion reset.

 

[pjohnson]

You are using a 4" lift spring in a spring over axle (SOA) configuration. This is not typically done with 4" springs. It is very tall and there is really no good way to attach the steering rod (draglink) to the steering arm without a significant drop pitman arm, which you seem to have. The tie rod (between the knuckle steering arms) can be over the springs or under the springs. Yours is over the springs which is better.

It appears you have the appropriate components for the front axle. However, because of the amount of arch in the springs, it isn't the best set up. If you search for "Spring over axle" here, you will get a lot of information about the best designs. The two factors you must consider are the camber angle of the knuckles and keeping the u-joints (at the diff and the transfer case) in proper relation to each other (they must be parallel to each other).

Your rear axle does not appear correct. The diff u-joint is not parallel with the transfer case u-joint. You will have driveline vibrations unless you have a CV joint at the transfer case. The same would be true for the front axle if you set it up the same way.

Do the searches mentioned above for cut-and-turn and spring over axle.
Do a google search on driveline u-joint angles.

 

[rcrracingfan29]

You are using a 4" lift spring in a spring over axle (SOA) configuration. This is not typically done with 4" springs. It is very tall and there is really no good way to attach the steering rod (draglink) to the steering arm without a significant drop pitman arm, which you seem to have. The tie rod (between the knuckle steering arms) can be over the springs or under the springs. Yours is over the springs which is better.

It appears you have the appropriate components for the front axle. However, because of the amount of arch in the springs, it isn't the best set up. If you search for "Spring over axle" here, you will get a lot of information about the best designs. The two factors you must consider are the camber angle of the knuckles and keeping the u-joints (at the diff and the transfer case) in proper relation to each other (they must be parallel to each other).

Your rear axle does not appear correct. The diff u-joint is not parallel with the transfer case u-joint. You will have driveline vibrations unless you have a CV joint at the transfer case. The same would be true for the front axle if you set it up the same way.

Do the searches mentioned above for cut-and-turn and spring over axle.
Do a google search on driveline u-joint angles.

Ok thanks

 

[rcrracingfan29]

When you attach the steering tie rod to the front hole is it at an extreme angle or is it pretty level? It looks like you have a drop Pittman arm already. I can't tell if those are hi-steer arms, maybe you need higher hi-steer arms. Some people make a z shaped steering link to eliminate the weird angle. Any time you do a crazy huge lift on short leaf springs things get into a strange engineering situation.

Ok thank you very much

 

[rcrracingfan29]

Ok thank you very much

I haven’t rolled the axle yet but when I do it will put the tie rod and steering rod at a extreme angle and will be under the leaf springs do they make a higher steering bracket for tie rod and steering rod at the hub?

 

[pjohnson]

I haven’t rolled the axle yet but when I do it will put the tie rod and steering rod at a extreme angle and will be under the leaf springs do they make a higher steering bracket for tie rod and steering rod at the hub?

Do not just "roll the axle". It will not do what you think it will do. You really need to research the proper way to do a "cut and turn".

 

[rcrracingfan29]

Do not just "roll the axle". It will not do what you think it will do. You really need to research the proper way to do a "cut and turn".

I’m going to cut brackets and relocate them I’m a welder and fabricator of 30 years I got that part the steering rod and tie rod have me stuck I want to keep above the leaf springs when I cut and roll it so I’m going to have a taller bracket at hub for the steering do make one or am I going to have to fab that too?i just recently purchased this and the way it is the front axle is is how was when I purchased it

this bracket

 

[pjohnson]

You don't cut the brackets, you cut the knuckle ball and rotate it. See this thread.

Cut and Turn: My experience

Before cutting the perches and hardware off Before cutting all the hardware off (So I know how it goes back on) Back on with vehicles weight on axle to measure stock castor (jack stands are for safety only, no weight on them right now) Measuring stock castor. Make sure angle finder is...

forum.ih8mud.com

A thread about high steer.

hysteer options lets see

finishing my soa and looking into hysteer, wanna know what you used and pics if you got any? thanks :cheers:

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[rcrracingfan29]

You don't cut the brackets, you cut the knuckle ball and rotate it. See this thread.

Cut and Turn: My experience

Before cutting the perches and hardware off Before cutting all the hardware off (So I know how it goes back on) Back on with vehicles weight on axle to measure stock castor (jack stands are for safety only, no weight on them right now) Measuring stock castor. Make sure angle finder is...

forum.ih8mud.com

A thread about high steer.

hysteer options lets see

finishing my soa and looking into hysteer, wanna know what you used and pics if you got any? thanks :cheers:

forum.ih8mud.com

Ok thanks that makes all my steering issues go away thanks for the info bro I’ll post pics as I progress on step by step

 

[White Stripe]

I need help deciding how to do steering bar and tie rods how are they done when rolling axle for correct front end driveshaft angle I can do cut and roll no problem just need help with the steering. Do you typically leave bars below leaf springs with a drop pitman arm?orcan you buy brackets to relocate them any help will be appreciated help????the reared turned out goodView attachment 1995049View attachment 1995050View attachment 1995051View attachment 1995052

First get some different leaf springs. Those leaf springs have too much arch in them. The truck will be completely useless if you use springs with that much arch and a spring over configuration and will throw off all your other fab work. Get some Springs that are almost flat, then start your fab work.

 

[rcrracingfan29]

First get some different leaf springs. Those leaf springs have too much arch in them. The truck will be completely useless if you use springs with that much arch and a spring over configuration and will throw off all your other fab work. Get some Springs that are almost flat, then start your fab work.

Ok thanks

 

[lcwizard]

First get some different leaf springs. Those leaf springs have too much arch in them. The truck will be completely useless if you use springs with that much arch and a spring over configuration and will throw off all your other fab work. Get some Springs that are almost flat, then start your fab work.

We had a member of the Az club that had a 40 that was sprung over with OME lift spring and shackles. About 8" of lift plus 35s
as I recall. He was affectionately named the "treehouse". It didn't climb, descend or sidehill well but he could cross deep water

 

[reddingcruiser]

Yep, you can't change the pinion angle without changing the caster angle, and you can't change the caster angle without changing the pinion angle, UNLESS you do a cut and turn.

IMHO, installing FJ60 springs (preferably new OMEs) makes one of the best SOA setups for a 40.

I agree with @pjohnson, the rear drive line setup is no bueno.

 

[69LC]

@rcrracingfan29 do you get the whole cut and turn idea and what it entails? It’s not hard if you can fab. Just don’t cut too deeply into the knuckle ball weld at the tube.

 

[rcrracingfan29]

@rcrracingfan29 do you get the whole cut and turn idea and what it entails? It’s not hard if you can fab. Just don’t cut too deeply into the knuckle ball weld at the tube.

Yes I cut it today right behind weld and rolled 1/4 “ I’m going bevel it out some to get good penetration and bolt back to springs and set angle to tack everything back up then take off and weld everything back up

 

[rcrracingfan29]

Yep, you can't change the pinion angle without changing the caster angle, and you can't change the caster angle without changing the pinion angle, UNLESS you do a cut and turn.

IMHO, installing FJ60 springs (preferably new OMEs) makes one of the best SOA setups for a 40.

I agree with @pjohnson, the rear drive line setup is no bueno.

I will address the rear when I get front straight it was all like that when I bought it the front pinion is in negative degrees not even at zero evidently someone didn’t know what they was doing

 

[rcrracingfan29]

We had a member of the Az club that had a 40 that was sprung over with OME lift spring and shackles. About 8" of lift plus 35s
as I recall. He was affectionately named the "treehouse". It didn't climb, descend or sidehill well but he could cross deep water

You don't cut the brackets, you cut the knuckle ball and rotate it. See this thread.

Cut and Turn: My experience

Before cutting the perches and hardware off Before cutting all the hardware off (So I know how it goes back on) Back on with vehicles weight on axle to measure stock castor (jack stands are for safety only, no weight on them right now) Measuring stock castor. Make sure angle finder is...

forum.ih8mud.com

A thread about high steer.

hysteer options lets see

finishing my soa and looking into hysteer, wanna know what you used and pics if you got any? thanks :cheers:

forum.ih8mud.com

What is the front axle look like to you a 60 or 80?and also do you think the rearend is stock and also is a 60 or 80 a 3/4 ton axle or 1 ton or 1/2 ton?i know nothing about these vehicles just so I will know what I got

 

[rcrracingfan29]

We had a member of the Az club that had a 40 that was sprung over with OME lift spring and shackles. About 8" of lift plus 35s
as I recall. He was affectionately named the "treehouse". It didn't climb, descend or sidehill well but he could cross deep water

Well I’m going to probably purchase new springs tomorrow