It'll buff out.
Help - pretty sure my 100 series is about to be totaled
- Thread starter Adam R
- Start date
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I'm worried about my 2002 LX470. It has just turned 60K miles and is rust free and in pristine condition in and out.
I see similar models going for $30K on BAT Auctions. Crazily I thought I overpaid for it in 2016 for $23.5K when it had only 24k miles but it was the only vehicle I wanted.
It would severely piss me off if something happened to it as its the only vehicle I like.
AND it would secondly piss me off if it got totaled and the Insurance Company low balled me.
I tried to get it insured by Hagerty for an "agreed value" but they wouldn't issue me a policy.
So I drive carefully but think I am driving a "time bomb" if it gets in an accident .
BTW, how nice was your Moms 2000 where you got $16K and how much was the buy back if I may ask?
Insurance is a racket and a half, innit? I work in healthcare and the reason healthcare is messed up? Insurance. Similar here - they're happy to take your $$$ every month, but when it comes to letting any go... good luck.
Keep fighting with em. That's an offensive offer on a landcruiser that's not literally a raisin-dented woods truck bondo buggy right now.
Keep fighting with em. That's an offensive offer on a landcruiser that's not literally a raisin-dented woods truck bondo buggy right now.
FWIW, in Nov 2020 my daughter totaled a super low-mileage creampuff 2001 Infiniti i30 that her grandfather gave her.
We're insured by USAA and had comprehensive. They paid us much more than I was expecting to see after I reviewed all the available comps, I think it was a bit over $6k. Used that to buy a 2003 V8 4Runner a "little old lady" down the street finally agreed to sell to me. USAA has been GTG, been w/them 30+ yrs.
We're insured by USAA and had comprehensive. They paid us much more than I was expecting to see after I reviewed all the available comps, I think it was a bit over $6k. Used that to buy a 2003 V8 4Runner a "little old lady" down the street finally agreed to sell to me. USAA has been GTG, been w/them 30+ yrs.
We have USAA as well and my '07 was totaled a couple years ago so I have some direct experience with USAA and LCs.
USAA subcontracts out the valuation of cars (can't remember the name of the company). LCs are extremely difficult to value because there aren't many of them, they're old so the conditions vary widely, and they have an enthusiastic following so good ones go for big dollars. You could take two 300K LCs with similar exterior appearance and correctly value them anywhere from $5K for one with a rusty undercarriage and tons of deferred maintenance to over $20K for one that's rust free and has had tons of PM done to set it up for it's next 200K miles.
For mine, they gave me 6 comps - 3 that they used in their valuation model plus another 3 just informational (to show me they didn't cherry pick the 3 they used, I guess). All six comps were recently sold or currently listed on auto dealer websites. Of the 6, 1 had obvious signs of underbody corrosion, 4 had accident reports on their carfax reports, and 1 had an invalid VIN - maybe it was just a typo on the VIN or maybe it was fraudulent and trying to hide it's history. So basically they struck out on all 6 cars. USAA was initially reluctant to budge from their initial valuation of $21K, but once I could show them that their subcontractor was full of crap, they became responsive and eventually increased the valuation to $28K. To arrive at that number, I had to go out and find a number of comps that I thought were more representative.
So... be careful if your car is in particularly good condition or has had lots of PM done that might set it apart from average. USAA is generally good to their customers, but they won't just increase the value because you ask either. You'll need to put in some leg work to demonstrate why their valuation is too low (if it is). You could possibly contact an auto broker or appraiser and for a fee they could help you out as they will have access to tools you likely don't, e.g., pulling auction values from Manheim, running multiple carfax reports on LCs listed for sale, etc.
For what it's worth - I did take the cash settlement, but have kicked myself in the a$$ ever since that I didn't buy the wrecked car back from them. It was fixable - granted would have shown as a salvaged title so would always have had a cap on it's resale value, but would have been a terrifically reliable car. Basically I would have been able to use the insurance settlement to zero base a bunch of maintenance I would have eventually done anyway.
Good luck.
- Thread starter
- #26
All good advice. I finally got ahold of the 20 something kid doing the claim work and let him know that we have been driving this vehicle almost as long as he's been alive and that I'm intimately familiar with its actual value. I also let him know that I was pretty much insulted that they offered me less than half of what it is worth before my mods, maintenance or excellent condition was considered.
He admitted that these vehicles were hard to value as there are so few of them out there. Hell, it only took me 5 minutes to come up with 33 comps which tells me these kids are too lazy or ignorant to be in the jobs they hold. Also, there is only 1 LC in the country right now in the same age range that is being sold for less than what they offered me and mine is rust free and immaculately maintained.
They said there is frame damage so they decided to total it. The frame damage comes down to "the drivers side frame horn is bent in slightly." I said that it is ridiculous to total a vehicle for that minor amount of "frame damage". Now if the main rail was taco'd under the B pillar, I would agree we have a problem. In the end, I told him that they need to go back and sharpen their pencils again and to treat my wife fairly. Based on what I see, my expectation is that the vehicle needs to be repaired, not totaled. 24 hours later and it's crickets from their end so hopefully they will come back with an amended position. Adam
He admitted that these vehicles were hard to value as there are so few of them out there. Hell, it only took me 5 minutes to come up with 33 comps which tells me these kids are too lazy or ignorant to be in the jobs they hold. Also, there is only 1 LC in the country right now in the same age range that is being sold for less than what they offered me and mine is rust free and immaculately maintained.
They said there is frame damage so they decided to total it. The frame damage comes down to "the drivers side frame horn is bent in slightly." I said that it is ridiculous to total a vehicle for that minor amount of "frame damage". Now if the main rail was taco'd under the B pillar, I would agree we have a problem. In the end, I told him that they need to go back and sharpen their pencils again and to treat my wife fairly. Based on what I see, my expectation is that the vehicle needs to be repaired, not totaled. 24 hours later and it's crickets from their end so hopefully they will come back with an amended position. Adam
Good luck. Keep us in the loop.
The person handling this is likely doing exactly what his employer is directing him to do in regards to finding comps at a lower claim value. Good luck
IMO you might be better off focusing on the valuation and let them deem it a total loss if they choose. If you get them to a value you consider reasonable, you can take a cash settlement and buy the car back from them. Their repair estimates are probably inflated, so even if you did the exact same work as they scoped, you could likely pocket the difference. Maybe more importantly, buying the wreck will give you full control of the repair. Where they will likely do straight stock replacements, you could use it as an opportunity to do some good modifications... e.g., why spend $1500 on a new stock front bumper if you can spend roughly the same amount on an ARB / Dissent / etc bumper? Or if you have to repaint, maybe you spend and extra $1K and fill in a bunch of road rash or change the whole car color? Putting yourself in charge of the repair might be a pain in the ass, but would give you a great opportunity to do some great mods.
Clearly the easiest solution, however, is just make them do the repairs... way less work if you just want a daily driver returned to you in good shape.
Speaking of which... if they do the repairs, make them pay for "diminution of value", which would be the reduced market value of your repaired car which will show a major wreck on it's history. Many states require insurance companies to compensate you for lost market value, not just the repair, but insurance companies never offer this unless you ask. You likely are eligible for this since the wreck was not your fault (I know USAA itself does not pay diminution of value to the guilty party), so make USAA get this from the other company (irrelevant if they total it).
Man, this is why I get paranoid sometimes driving my 99 LX. I bought it for $6400. Essentially a 1-owner rig from an elderly couple in Phoenix. I still get craigslist alerts on my phone and it's clear that kind of deal is very unlikely to come up again. I would be so mad if someone hit me and totalled it.
On a related note I had State Farm back in the day and my 93 Civic Si was stolen in Seattle. The insurance decided to salvage it and came back with a total low-ball offer. I asked to see the comps and they showed me pages of CX and DX Civics (base and mid-level). The Si was so much more rare but they said they were basically the same. I finally did get a fair price for it, but it took a bunch of haggling. And the agent's wife was one of my mom's good friends, but they didn't care. They were happy to try and screw us.
Bottom line, don't give in. It might take a few back and forths but they WILL cave eventually.
I just recently had a repair claim with this same insurer, they cut me the check to use as I pleased, no hassle no mess.
Going through this same situation with my 2009 Tacoma right now. Good luck! Fight hard.
Remember, it was their insurer that hit you.
Remember, it was their insurer that hit you.
- Thread starter
- #33
| 1999 | 8,998 | 229,104 | Damaged fog lights, broken antenna, bubbling rust right front fender, major dent and bubbling rust left front fender, bubbling rust multiple locations on rear hatch, frame rust, wheel corrosion, left front door panel damaged/ripped, steering wheel damaged, gear shifter damaged, front console trim delaminated, many carpet stains front, center and rear, extensive damage and stains to all seats and seat belts, evidence of being repainted. |
| 1999 | 9,500 | 259,000 | Damaged front and rear seats, front console trip delaminated and peeling, engine bay extremely dirty, 16" factory wheels and street tires. |
| 1999 | 9,995 | 211,914 | Non-oem wheels, front bumper damage, damaged fog lights, missing rear deflector, rear hatch severely dented, no rear hitch receiver, steering wheel cover torn off, rust in left rear wheel fender lip, severely stained carpets, seat covers over damaged seats, left rear door panel speaker cover torn off, interior dome light broken, middle seats severely damaged, third row seats severely damaged, left side interior covering ripped alongside third row seat, seat belts damaged, right rear door panel damage, front console trip delaminated and peeling off, gear shifter torn, ashes in gear shifter, evidence of it being smoked in, trim around gear shifter broken and delaminating, left front door interior panel damage, |
| 1999 | 11,995 | 295,392 | No pictures available |
| 1999 | 14,900 | 335,000 | Few pictures, but damaged seats and torn steering wheel cover, 16" factory OEM wheels and tires, stained carpets. |
| 1999 | 14,999 | 232,183 | Right front door damage, no trailer hitch, left front door dent, third row seats trashed, center console trim delaminated, steer wheel damaged, right front door interior damage, left front door interior damage, gear shifter damaged, |
| 1999 | 15,000 | 274,000 | Few pictures, but this is in equivalent condition, but does not have the modifications my vehicle has. |
| 1999 | 15,900 | 264,454 | Few pictures, but this is in equivalent condition, but does not have the modifications my vehicle has. |
Here is the home work I did today. The comps they provided were #1 and #3 in the list above. I also downloaded all of the high-res photos of the vehicles above in case I need to show them to a judge somewhere down the road. My vehicle is closest to #'s 5-8. Heck, one of their comps had bubbling rust on multiple body panels and these are between 1100 and 1700 miles away. 22 year old Ohio and Florida vehicles. Those are going to be gems. I used autorader.com and there are only 12 to look at across the entire US. Rest assured, I'm going to fight them hard, just on principal alone. USAA told me I should look at initiating the Appraisal Clause and have an independent appraiser provide a value. Does anyone know were I can find a reputable person to do this? The places I googled in Denver and Colorado Springs looked a little on the shady side. As an aside, my 292,000 mile vehicle is rust free, has brand new 18" Tundra take offs, Boar wheel spacers, new oversize MT tires, 90K service in past 5 weeks, new rear brakes in past 3 weeks, slightly lifted in front and air bagged in the rear and more maintenance than 99.9% of vehicles on the road today. It also runs better than most new cars and I doubt any of the cars above have been taken care of as well as our. I told them I'd take $16,000 minus the $2900 salvage value they initially offered. I'm certain they will balk. Thanks, Adam
TRDdrew
SILVER Star
In insurance companies eyes modifications hurt the value of a vehicle not help it, Just keep fighting hard they will eventually pay out. i agree with what was stated above, let them total it and take the payout and buy the vehicle back. ive gone through this multiple times with vehicle that is why my current cruiser has a stated value policy.
Try looking at Bring A Trailer for completed auctions. It would have the advantage of being completed sales (not asking prices) with great photo evidence and trucks that may have been maintained or modified more in line with yours.
As for appraisals... I used an auto broker once when arguing for diminished value on my wife's Sequoia. Brokers have tools like Manheim's auction results. I don't know if brokers officially count as appraisers or not, however.
