Help! Miss Scarlet is sick...

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by Geezer Cruzzer, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. Geezer Cruzzer

    Geezer Cruzzer

    Messages:
    238
    Media:
    65
    Albums:
    7
    Likes Received:
    331
    Joined:
    May 13, 2017
    Location:
    Buena Vista, Colorado
    Getting ready to put Miss Scarlet to bed for the winter. Dumped about 3 oz. of STA-BIL in about 1/4 tank of gas and drove about 1 1/2 miles to the station to fill the tank. Then I drove another couple of miles into town. On the way back home she started running like crap. She will start and idle just fine.

    I was able to get home by letting in idle in third gear. So, it is not load related. In neutral it will surge in a rhythm if I try to hold a higher RPM off idle. If I continue to try to increase RPM by pumping the pedal it will eventually die. It is not missing like an electrical issue. There isn't any misfiring. I'm thinking some sort of fueling issue. She has the original Aisan carb that was worked on in 1997 by the original owner. It was also desmoged at the same time. The fuel filter was changed in June of 2017. Been running like a fine watch since purchase in May of 2017.

    I can't believe the STA-BIL is the issue. I'm starting to suspect water in the gas, but I bought the gas at a Love's truck stop so that really shouldn't be a problem. I did add a bottle of HEET just in case, but it is still running like crap.

    What say you oh wise ones?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  2. TCEd

    TCEd SILVER Star

    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    200
    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Location:
    Traverse City, MI
    I'd look at the carb. and choke linkage.
     
  3. SSTigerMerc

    SSTigerMerc

    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    sounds like carb pick up issues. Might have some junk built up in a pathway.
     
  4. Geezer Cruzzer

    Geezer Cruzzer

    Messages:
    238
    Media:
    65
    Albums:
    7
    Likes Received:
    331
    Joined:
    May 13, 2017
    Location:
    Buena Vista, Colorado
    I'll check that after she is cool.
     
  5. Helipilot

    Helipilot SILVER Star

    Messages:
    614
    Likes Received:
    572
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Location:
    Arkansas
    I took a short term contract in Minneapolis/St.Paul flying a S-76 life flight in the dead of winter. Drove my '78 FJ-40 from Texas up there and within a couple of weeks it exhibited the same symptoms you describe. I believe it was the HEET that caused the water to "clump" up. I pulled the 40 into the heated hangar and drained the fuel tank. Sure enough there were numerous globules of water in the gas. Changed the fuel filters and put some clean gas in and it ran like a top the rest of the winter contract.

    We have the same problems in aircraft occasionally that requires me to take a fuel sample from the fuel sump before each flight. Good Luck with Miss Scarlet.
     
  6. morganism

    morganism SunkCostFallacy

    Messages:
    711
    Media:
    3
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    179
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Location:
    Verde Valley, AZ
    Helio isn't kidding.
    There are bacteria that will grow in fuel tanks too. Would drain bottom of tank, and the inlet screen in the carb. Blow air back thru fuel pickup lines (low pressure, High can cause more probs.)

    Hot running from ethanol can also jam the EGR. While in idle, try tapping on the EGR top hat w screwdriver handle, and pull some vac quick on top vac line too, just to try and make it stall.

    Switch the Charcoal cannister lines for a week too, there is a bad valve in there, and can cause tank pressurization issues that cause probs.
     
  7. Geezer Cruzzer

    Geezer Cruzzer

    Messages:
    238
    Media:
    65
    Albums:
    7
    Likes Received:
    331
    Joined:
    May 13, 2017
    Location:
    Buena Vista, Colorado
    Just to give you an update. Yesterday after posting, I let her sit for a spell. Then gave her a test drive. She ran fine for a few hundred yards and then started bucking. I let it sit overnight. Just now I took her on a drive and she ran like always. Drove the stink out of her winding it up through the gears and hit over 60 mph. Ran like she has for the last 18 months. Obviously to me it is a fueling problem. Maybe sitting up overnight let the HEET do its thing. If I have time, I'll change the fuel filter. I'll drive her the next couple of days, and then put her to bed until April.

    Thanks for the help.
    Jack
     
  8. Living in the Past

    Living in the Past SILVER Star

    Messages:
    16,039
    Likes Received:
    2,815
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Curious the reason to fill the tank if you plan on parking it for months. I would do just the opposite. Would drive it until it low on fuel. Drain the tank. Then let it start it and run the fuel out the line and carb. My cabin is in a rural area. Number of years back the only station in the area besides being about a dollar more a gallon was having money issues and supplier put them on COD. Was common for them to no have gas. Station sold and new owner has lowered the price some but I'm now use to hauling Jerry cans and filling the tank. Wouldn't it be better to have a empty tank and use a small gas can full of fresh gas in the spring to get it to a gas station? Only time I've had a issue like this was in the early seventies in a Opel GT. Starting running really bad after filling it up. Right after shutting it down siphoned a mason jar of gas out of the tank and let it settle. Half of it was water. Just sounds like you got a tank of bad gas to me. For me once I got rid of the bad gas it ran fine.
     
  9. Brizzman

    Brizzman

    Messages:
    11
    Media:
    5
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    Location:
    NV
    I'm not sure about 'cruiser gas tanks (mine has an aluminum fuel cell), but most gas tanks are steel, and you want to store them filled up to prevent rust from condensation.

    To the OP, if you think it was water in the gas, you may want to drain it or drive it and put in fresh good gas before storing it. The water and gas will separate if there's any water left and the tank will rust at the waterline.
     
  10. brian

    brian SILVER Star

    Messages:
    9,063
    Likes Received:
    2,567
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Location:
    lebanon,pa
    thats horrible for fuel pump diaphragms and rubber fuel lines...make em wet, keep them wet.
     
  11. Living in the Past

    Living in the Past SILVER Star

    Messages:
    16,039
    Likes Received:
    2,815
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005

    Thought for it to rust it needs oxygen. Gas sitting on top of water would prevent that.

    Live in AZ so humidity is generally not a issue. Even at 7,000' where my 40s are kept in a insulates garage. Isn't fuel more likely to draw and adsorb moisture than bare metal? Personally if I stored a high dollar FJ40 where just sitting there moisture would condense on it would figure a way to insulate and heat to prevent that or sell it.
     
  12. Brizzman

    Brizzman

    Messages:
    11
    Media:
    5
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    Location:
    NV
    I've seen many motorcycle tanks rusted out from being stored improperly, so I'm mostly going from that experience and not cars. One bike had probably a 1/4 tank of water and the rest gas and the bottom of the tank was severely rusted. My guess is that the water has enough oxygen dissolved in it (like what the fish breath) to promote rust.

    Storing in a heated garage is great i you have that option. Mine won't even fit in the garage.
     
  13. Living in the Past

    Living in the Past SILVER Star

    Messages:
    16,039
    Likes Received:
    2,815
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    By your reasoning the auto part stores should be soaking all the rubber fuel lines and fuel pump in gas. Otherwise the parts better have a manufacture date and do not buy one over a few months old.


    As for fish and oxygen that's true but with gas sealing the top of the water rust won't be any worse at the top of the water line verses anywhere else. When I bought my FJ45 in January 96 I bought all spare weatherstripping that was still available. It's still like new.

    My personal belief is people add something to the gas because it's a lot easier than taking the time to properly drain the fuel system.

    Still believe OP has bad gas since it started all of a sudden after a fill up and should be drained not just treated.
     
  14. brian

    brian SILVER Star

    Messages:
    9,063
    Likes Received:
    2,567
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Location:
    lebanon,pa

    no fine when dry, but once given gas, keep them wet.
     
  15. Brizzman

    Brizzman

    Messages:
    11
    Media:
    5
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    Location:
    NV
    The bike that had the water in the fuel and badly rusted tank had rust on the whole bottom of the tank, not just the line where the gas and fuel met. I'm assuming it rusted everywhere the water touched it.

    I agree it's easier to add a fuel additive than drain the tank, but I've seen a few bikes with drained tanks that were rusted out as well. They had probably been sitting for many years, so not the same situation, and probably won't be a problem for Geezer Cruzzer. I have just always been told to store bikes with a fuel stabilizer and a full tank. My experience has made me confident that it does work better that way, if done right. I'm assuming it works the same for cars. Most motorcycle fuel tanks are very easy to inspect, so you can tell year by year. Cars are not so easy.
     
  16. Living in the Past

    Living in the Past SILVER Star

    Messages:
    16,039
    Likes Received:
    2,815
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Curious how you keep all your weatherstripping vacuum hoses and emission hoses wet all the time? Know they get wet every time it rains and then dry out.

    Not sure I going to buy that one. Have a number of old used fuel pumps that I keep for repalcement parts including the diaphragms. It's one thing to drain a system completely and another to let gas evaporate and leave a residue behind. It's just easier to add something to the tank verses taking the time to drain out the system.
     
  17. brian

    brian SILVER Star

    Messages:
    9,063
    Likes Received:
    2,567
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Location:
    lebanon,pa

    it doesn't rain gasoline in Pennsylvania.
     
  18. coonassjohn

    coonassjohn

    Messages:
    483
    Media:
    6
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    305
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Location:
    up there somewhere
    I too had some gas problems until I switched to ethanol free fuel, no more problems.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.