HELP! - 3B BLOWN OR NOT? (1 Viewer)

[OPUS1]

So A friend buys a beautiful 84 60 a couple of weeks ago. 600K from home. He flies to the location to drive it home. Drives 250K and runs beautifully then stops to fuel up. The cruiser goes 14K then dies. It finishes the journey on the back of a truck. So we immediately suspect the fuel system. Only one other problem - the engine appears to be stuck!

Specs:
3B - 340Kilos
AXT turbo
apparently good compression
there was no heating on the gauges ( or any other noticeable sign of heating ) when it died on the highway
oil level is good
clutch appears to be free

So we tear it into it today an did the following:

remove glow plugs - possible hydrolock - not
pulled the fuel pump -possible seized pump -not
remove the starter - possible jammed starter -not

So if it seized it did so at 100k/ hour with no other telltale signs.

Then when he got it home it cranked over a bit more then seems to be seized again (testing with a breaker bar on the front 24mm crank nut ). How tight should it be when testing this way?

Has anyone had this experience? Does anyone have any other suggestions? How can we know for sure that it is truly seized?
We are considering an easy pull and clutch out as the next possibility.

Any ideas or suggestions on this matter will be greatly appreciated!

Danny

 

[cruiserpilot]

How was the coolant level?

 

[roscoFJ73]

Then when he got it home it cranked over a bit more then seems to be seized again (testing with a breaker bar on the front 24mm crank nut ). How tight should it be when testing this way?

The best way to turn an engine over is to remove the glow plugs. If it doesnt turn easily, consider it seized.
I would probably remove the head rather than the clutch and have a look at the bore.
A blown head gasket leading to hydro locking is my guess with the information given so far.
Ask the owner if any work has been done it that area recently, and it cant hurt to ask him about a hand out to fix it.

 

[OPUS1]

Thanks Rosco - you're confirming our worst fears!

 

[duncanrm]

A borescope down the glow plug holes may show if a precombustion chamber has dropped.

 

[OPUS1]

That is a great idea duncanrm! That is the one thing that I have heard that could take a 3B out is if a precup has dropped. If that were the case it might just come down to some head work?

 

[too tall]

Maybe a bit more. You could try to reverse rotating the crank to see if a pre-cup dropped and then bound up against the top of the piston though.

 

[OPUS1]

Thanks again Rosco for your suggestion to pull the head. We did that tonight and lo and behold we found a fallen pre-cup on number 3. With what appears to be some abrasion damage(fusion of pieces) and also some deterioration at the top of the sleeve( see attached photo). Looking for input on assessment of the carnage.Do you think that we should be putting in a new sleeve and piston set? Or do a bush fix and just clean it up with a die grinder? We wonder if the damage at the top of the sleeve will be an issue? Overall compression is good.
top of the sleeve will be an issue

?

 

[dmjay]

Wow man, “ some abrasion damge “ , that is a full rebuild mate.

 

[FJBen]

Personally, I’d full rebuild. You’ve got 330km on it and some damage.

My guess is you have possibly some bad push rods A lifter as well. any issues or damage on the head?
You could try and just do a liner, you absolutely need one, and a new piston, which will give you time to look at the bottom end, which should be good, but you never know.

very similar to my problem with my 13bt before I got it. Hose Blew, overheated and took out head gasket, piston, lifter and liner scored along with a couple push rods. I ended up fully rebuilding and glad I did.

 

[grayjs]

Similar scenario happened to me a few years ago, dropped a precup and it was also on #3. Damaged both the liner and underside of the head. Ended up finding another 3b engine for a full rebuild and swapped in.

 

[gerg]

Part that engine out. Find a running 3B and have it shipped to you. Redo the bottom bearing, head gasket and precups yourself. A rebuild is not cheap and so many things can go wrong with it. Extremely hard to get your money out of it too.

 

[Dougal]

Minimum is new piston, cylinder sleeve, head, gaskets, bearings. Also need to check the con-rods, crank etc. There's a whole lot of force on everything when you've just turned an originally non turbo engine into a cold forging hammer mill.

I agree with Gerg. Find another running engine. A full rebuild will be very expensive and unless you're making a numbers matching show car it's not worth it.

 

[roscoFJ73]

The problem with buying a used 3B is that they are all 30+ years old, unless someone has a rebuilt one with proof, you could be buying something not much better than yours before the catastrophe
Engine Australia kits are cheap with the US dollar, under $1000 from memory. Get a quote on machining
I would strip down and assess and go from there.

 

[gerg]

Get a video on it running. Buy from someone here with a half decient reputation. I've rebuilt engines before and it's not as cheap as you think after it's all said and done. Now I've talked with a guy in the board here (last year) who went through a full rebuild only to have rings improperly gapped with major cylinder damage and the shop doesn't own up to it....and the owner ended up getting a running engine anyway and refreshed it. In my case my machinist didnt shim my liners properly and I blew head gaskets one after another untill......I swapped the motor with a good runner and changed out the bearings and rebuilt the top end which is what I recommend he does.
So it's not without experience that I recommend this but if you rebuilt it I strongly suggest you be involved in the process and be familiar with what can go wrong and double check the shops work before assembly.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Now I've talked with a guy in the board here (last year) who went through a full rebuild only to have rings improperly gapped with major cylinder damage and the shop doesn't own up to it

Thats a shoddy work problem, you cant say all rebuilt engines are going to have serious faults. Ive had 4 engines rebuilt over the years and they were all perfect. Far more used engines die than rebuilt ones. I dont have a problem with used engines if it can be shown it is good, but its always risky. You dont know how the maintenance was carried out or how it was driven.

 

[gerg]

I get that it's a shoddy work problem, no one said it was normal. I did say if you rebuild it learn what can go wrong cus stuff does go wrong.

So more stock engines die purely because there are just more stock engines than rebuilt ones. Now I'd have to say a much higher percentage of rebuilt engines die compared to stock built engines. I'd venture that a Toyota engine assembly line that produces the same engine by the tens of thousand is going to do a much higher quality job by much more skilled and experienced techs than a rebuild shop.

 

[roscoFJ73]

I'd venture that a Toyota engine assembly line that produces the same engine by the tens of thousand is going to do a much higher quality job by much more skilled and experienced techs than a rebuild shop.

In Australia, all reconditioning is done by shops that have to be members of the Mechanics Institute. If the engine blows up they are liable to repair it under warranty.
If they dont fix their dead engines, they lose that Mechanics Institute membership and certification and it gets very hard to get work. And they can still be made to fix the engine.
But rebuilt engines that die are few and far between. The shop that rebuilt mine was big supplier of 1HZ to the mining companies, although they were also a high performance Lotus, Rolls Royce and British specialist. They had a 1940s RR Phantom getting a new engine in there while my 1HZ was being built. They also did a V8 Holden engine for me in the 1980s and a Lotus engine for my old house mate.
I read with dismay tales from the US about rings and pistons being the wrong size for the cylinders. I cant understand how that happens.

 

[bcsteel]

I wish we had that kind of accountability over here. That sounds reassuring.

 

[gerg]

Rosco I believe you, but for some reason things are just not the same here.