Head removed, hg pics 230k (1 Viewer)

[jpoole]

We've had a warm snap here in East Tennessee which gave me a chance to do a bit more work on the FZJ80 I bought in the Fall (no garage). The first job is baselining starting with engine work including replacing the head gasket. The truck has 230k on it, ran great and had really good/consistent compression numbers but is mostly original. I thought a few pictures of an example with 230k and I think a still good HG might be interesting. If anyone notices anything interesting going on I'd welcome the input. Beyond the coolant passages seeming crusty I haven't noticed anything that struck me as out of line but this is my first 1FZFE.

Thanks,

 

[jpoole]

a bit better view of #6

 

[SmokingRocks]

Why are your manifolds still in place? Need to take the gasket off and inspect for any nicks or abnormalities around the fire ring. Also you need to polish the deck to see if there is any pitting. Having the manifolds out of the way will be helpful.

Otherwise it looks great. While the heads off you should have a valve job done on it.

 

[69LC]

Watch where you put anything you remove. It's a PiTA to do this work and have something like goats sneak into the barn and scatter your cam bolts. It happened... this of course would apply to dogs and kids too.

 

[Mighty690]

Boy, the cylinder bores do look pretty darn good.

 

[jpoole]

SmokingRocks, The manifolds are on because they didn't have to come off to get to this point. I may loosen the exchaust side up to gain a bit of space but if I don't have to take things off I probably won't since I don't have extra work time for the truck. I will be having head work done while it's off and will be doing lots of PM while I have better access so this is more than a HG job for sure.

Mighty690, I agree on the bores. Minimal ring ridge and decent cross-hatching still visible. There's more carbon build up than I'd like but I assume EGR has a lot to do with that.

I'm hoping all will be well when I get into the cleanup and hear from the machinist on the head. Hard to imagine why it wouldn't given the way it ran and compression tested though. Sure will be nice to get to drive this thing at some point... Oh well, that's a ways off still.

 

[half k cruiser]

@jpoole those bores look great. If there were any seepage from the headgasket I would expect to see at least one clean piston top. All of yours look consistent. Don't be tempted to scrape the carbon off of the piston tops, just leave them alone.

 

[jpoole]

Thanks Half K,

It is really tempting to get in there with a solvent, copper brush and vacuum, or some other cleaning arrangement, to clean the pistons. Is it too risky in terms of damage or getting debris in the rings or??? What's the logic on not cleaning the piston tops and are there other areas that I need to ignore or clean sparingly?

 

[Kaninja]

Those coolant passages look really nasty. What shape is your cooling system in? Was it running hot?

 

[jpoole]

Kaninja, I thought they looked bad too but wondered if they were perhaps typical for this engine with 230k miles. The radiator in the truck is newish, indicating overheating or at least leaking problems in it's recent life. I bought the truck after it had been sitting a few years and drove it a few hundred miles with no overheating issues though I did stop a few times for inpections and to deal with a few other problems that came up. After getting the truck home I drained and ran a lot of tap water though the block to flush whatever was in there out before it sat for HG work. After that I drained as much as I could in prep for starting HG work, etc. and it's been sitting mostly empty for a few months.

I'm wondering if coolant types were mixed in the past or something else bad like lots of stop leak, etc. It seems like a more thorough system flush is in order and possibly I should have the radiator tested/cleaned at a shop? Any suggestions for aggressive but safe cleaning? Should I try to do anything with the head off, or can I? I assume I'll have to get the new HG in and the engine running before I can do any sort of flush but maybe there are options I don't know about.

Thanks,

 

[LFD2037]

Those coolant passages look really nasty. What shape is your cooling system in? Was it running hot?

I was thinking the same thing. Amazing it wasn't running really hot.

Personally, I'd get all that carbon off the pistons that I could. Not sure the best way while they're still in the block though.

 

[Kaninja]

Jpoole, if it was me I would see if garden hose pressure would push through any of that gunk. At least it would show you what kind of flow, or trickle is coming through the coolant passages. Then shop vac anything up out of the cylinders and wipe them down with a rag with fresh oil.

My cooling system was a mess. Took me over a week of flushes before I saw anything you could remotely call "clear" water. Including a Cascade flush that was amazing at loosening crud. I may very well have coolant passages that look just like yours.

The previous owner took the term "Long Life Coolant" to a whole new level.

 

[JLH911]

That cooling system needs attention. I'd replace the water pump while your in there and clean out as much of that rusty stuff.

 

[half k cruiser]

Is it too risky in terms of damage or getting debris in the rings or??? What's the logic on not cleaning the piston tops and are there other areas that I need to ignore or clean sparingly?

The logic is some of those pieces of carbon will get down between the cylinder wall and the piston. Then they will score the cylinder walls. There really is no good reason to clean them inside the cylinder. They will just have carbon on them again in a few 100 miles. The only time the carbon would be an issue is if there were some large chunks on there which you don't seem to have. Now if they were out of the bore, by all means clean them.

On your coolant passages you might try running a pipe cleaner down through there. I probably wouldn't try flushing the block with the head off as your going to get water in your bores. That water will start in on those cylinder walls in short order. But you could try and get that stuff loosened up, then when the head goes back on I would give it a really good flush. Most likely your radiator is also plugged full.

 

[jpoole]

Thanks for all of the good info,

I see the point on cleaning the piston tops and the fact that they'll be dirty again quickly is enough to avoid the hassle, not to mention the risk. Right now the pistons have all got a good shot of wd40 on them, for the sake of the rings. I've seen rust start up quickly in an exposed bore and assume that even just cool/warm cycling every day will cause some condensation. I've got the block covered to minimize it but it's not air tight so hope that the proactive wd40 coatings will do their thing. I'm not a big fan of wd40, unless for water displacement, so this is a perfect use for it. I'll do a few cylinder wipe and vacuum outs to keep the debris out but otherwise will not get into cleaning them unless someone recommends something convincing.

I like the plan of clearing out, or at least breaking up the crud in the passages somewhat with the head off. I will take it as far as I can without risking water in the cylinders/bottom end. The shop vac will be heavily involved. Hopefully once I peel the gasket off the passages aren't as bad as it seems they may be. I'll post updates once I get a bit further along on coolant system investigation. It sounds like I definitely need to get the rad. flow tested before putting it back into service as well.

Thanks again,

 

[jpoole]

Oh and Kaninja, if you weren't in BC I'd be wondering if you had taken those photos of my truck. My rad cap looks a lot like yours, ie. way past it's service life.

 

[Malleus]

X2 with half k's comments.

As an engineer with a little SAE experience, IMHO, cleaning pistons inside an engine block is asking for trouble. Your bores are sweet, do everything you can to keep them that way, including covering them ASAP. Cleaning the cooling passages with flowing water (or "flowing" anything else), with the engine assembled and the head off is a crap shoot. If you get coolant into a cylinder, you won't know it until you button everything up and turn the key.

Swabbing them with pipe cleaners, or anything else you can get into them may, I repeat may, push trash further into them. Best to clean all the exposed surfaces as carefully as you can, then flush the system after the head is sealed. Check the radiator and water pump while you're at it though. Now's the time.

 

[packetstormin]

I would highly recommend that you pull the oil-cooler off and inspect the block. Judging by the way your passages look, you might be in a world of hurt.

 

[jpoole]

I peeled the HG off but haven't done any cleaning yet. Plan is to go in with the shop vac and gently suck the chunks off/out. After that I will see if I can get the chunks out of the cooling passages with a dental pick and the shop vac. It looks like a lot of the build up is at the gasket where there was a constriction or feature for them to build up on so hopefully most of the crap is within easy reach. After the chunks are out of the way I'll get the deck cleaned up and then do the rest of the cooling system clean after the heads back on. New H20 pump will go in and the radiator will be closely reviewed. Thanks for the help. Here are a few more photos of the head and the block with the gasket off but no cleaning done.

 

[jpoole]

Packetstormin, I'm planning to do a number of jobs now that I have better access including pulling/cleaning/resealing the oil cooler. What do you mean by world of hurt? It's apparent to me that aggressive cleaning is needed on this engine but it seems like that will be worthwhile given how it ran and compression tested.