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Head Gasket/timing chain cover work - update 3/27/04 Complete!

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by Lars, Mar 6, 2004.

  1. Lars

    Lars

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    I didnt want to completely hijack the "freshening my cruiser" thread so I'll start a new one.

    Well my friend wasnt keen on my idea of pulling the motor out of the vehicle so we proceeded tonight with the head and got it off without much problem. The leak was found on the #6 cyl.... no mistaking the signs. Doesnt appear to be any damage. Need to have the head checked though to see what sort of condition it's in. Engine components look very good for this many miles (117k).

    I have pics on my digi camera I'll post sometime this weekend.

    Questions....

    I'm wondering if the previous owner changed the PHH. The hose material I found looked like the pinkish-red high pressure hose often seen at the local auto parts retailers. Is this OEM?

    If I have the cyl. head off and radiator removed, well I need to drop the oil pans to get the timing chain cover off? Any comments or thoughts are appreciated.

    Thats all for now. Hands hurt and it's late. Lots of knuckle busting the past two nights and going back at it tomorrow evening. :beer:


    Cheers,
    Larry
     
  2. cruiserman

    cruiserman

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    Head Gasket work and a question or two.

    Is this a 1fzfe or 3FE? I'll assume 1fzfe, since that's what I have, and you mention the head pipe hose. No, the OEM hose is not red. Replace it if you have any questions about it. In fact, I would replace every hose you can get to, which should be all of them, since the head is off.

    Yes, you will need to pull the pans to get the cover off. Dan can verify that, but he did pull the pans IIRC.
     
  3. Lars

    Lars

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    Head Gasket work and a question or two.

    Thanks Cruiserman. It is a 1fzfe. I talked to Cdan on friday. He was sure the pans needed to come off but I was seeing if anyone might have a tip or trick.
     
  4. semlin

    semlin discouraged user

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    Re:Head Gasket work and a question or two.

    Yes they are not red. At 117k there would be no mistaking the original PHH. Think of a WW2 anti-vd training movie.

    If the new hose shows no signs of weeping fluid I would not mess with it.
     
  5. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    Head Gasket work and a question or two.

    Replace it.

    Sorry Simon, the PHH gets disconnected when you pull the head. I would replace it if I had put a new one on two weeks ago. It's dirt cheap and a bear to deal with on an assemlbed engine. Any tear-down that gets you remotely close to the PHH should result in a changed one. That way it's that much further down the road before you need another one.
    A really good time to change one is when you have the transmission out. You have a straight shot from below with quite a bit of room.

    D-
     
  6. semlin

    semlin discouraged user

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    Re:Head Gasket work and a question or two.

    I will definitely defer on this one.

    I was thinking of the past discussions about possibly weepy replacement silicone hoses. Figured if this one had not weeped it would be better to leave in place.
     
  7. Lars

    Lars

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    Head Gasket work and a question or two.

    For those that might read this in the future and wonder why Im talking about the timing chain cover... this started out as your basic head gasket replacement but when we got the valve cover off we found that the timing chain slipper was broken in to at least 2 pieces. To put in a new one requires the chain cover to come off which in turn requires removal of a bunch of other goodies. :)

    Tonight we put in about 2.5 hours worth or work....
    Removed the radiator, all accessories on the front of the engine as well as the water pump. Got all pulleys off including the crank pulley ... lots of fun on that last one. After draining the oil (looked like chocolate milk) we removed the bolts from the front of the forward oil pan. Thought we could get the timing chain cover off at this point but there is something still holding it on near the top passenger side of the cover. We set this task aside until I can consult with the experts (cdan and robbie) early this coming week.

    Questions.... Do I need to remove the oil pump? Also, why would I need to remove the oil pressure sending unit?

    We then got back to cleaning up the carbon at the tops of the cylinders and the pistons and then cleaned the block surface. Pretty much ready for the head to go back on .... that is after we get the timing chain cover off and take care of the broken chain slipper.

    Next up is to get the head cleaned and any work done to it that might be needed. Im probably going to have the radiator serviced or replaced. I'm not sure if I'm going to mess with the injectors or not. Need to replace all the hoses and rebuild the steering pump. Also I need to clean the carbon buildup out of the intake and throttle body.

    Time spent wrenching so far ... about 9 hours. Things are going much better now. It seems that when you first start tearing into this motor it's overwhelming/discouraging but that goes away after the first few hours. Just have to be patient!


    Regards,
    Larry
     
  8. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    Head Gasket work and a question or two.

    You need to remove the power steering pump and remove the top stud. It goes clear through the timing cover. it screws into the block from the back side (ps pump side). As far as something at the top RH side, there is a bolt near the top of the cover thst goes in from the front but I don't recall anything "hidden" in that corner. There is a locating dowell there. Did you remove the water pump studs yet? they need to come out too so you have some wiggle room. I assume you removed the studs that go into the timimg cover from the pan side.
    You will not need to remove the oil pump cover to get the timing cover off. In any event, removing the countersunk phillips screws that attach the oil pump cover is almost impossible with the cover "in frame"
    you will be need to remove it to re-assemble the timing cover to the engine so you can get a straight shot back on. and then install the gear and oil pump cover after the timing cover is fitted. At least that is what I had to do with the cylinder head still attached.


    D-
     
  9. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    Re:Head Gasket work and a question or two.

    Larry,

    Here are some pics that may help. I took these while Dan's engine was in pieces.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    -B-
     
  10. e9999

    e9999 You want to do what...? Moderator

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    Head Gasket work and a question or two.

    may I ask how lengthy and costly a job it would be just to change the head gasket if one were to limit oneself stictly to that job (i.e. with no fun excursions in other parts of the engine like one might want to do for fun etc)?
    thanks
    Eric
     
  11. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    Re:Head Gasket work and a question or two.

    Larry,
    Be sure to read Robbie's post about the oil pressure relief valve. It's that spring next to the chain rail in the pic above.
    -B-
     
  12. Lars

    Lars

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  13. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    Head Gasket work and a question or two.

    Eric, I'll let you know in a week or so.
     
  14. sleeoffroad

    sleeoffroad Supporting Vendor

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    Head Gasket work and a question or two.

    [quote author=e9999 link=board=2;threadid=12645;start=msg116757#msg116757 date=1078684242]
    may I ask how lengthy and costly a job it would be just to change the head gasket if one were to limit oneself stictly to that job (i.e. with no fun excursions in other parts of the engine like one might want to do for fun etc)?
    thanks
    Eric

    [/quote]

    About 15 hours of shop time and parts to the tune of $300. Normally it is more since the radiator needs servicing as well, sometimes a valve job on the head. etc etc.
     
  15. e9999

    e9999 You want to do what...? Moderator

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    Head Gasket work and a question or two.

    yikes! is that with serious damage or just preventive maintenance (I meant the latter) ?
    E
     
  16. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    Head Gasket work and a question or two.

    With what I'm doing I a little over $400.00 in parts. Not sure of the time but probably double what Christo quoted.
     
  17. Lars

    Lars

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    Head Gasket work and a question or two.

    Rick,
    When are you starting your work? Good luck... hope you dont find any gotchas like I did.


    Larry
     
  18. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    Head Gasket work and a question or two.

    Saturday, right after having my taxes done. Hope I'm in a good mood.
     
  19. Lars

    Lars

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    Head Gasket/timing chain cover work - updated 3/13/04

    Tonight we got the oil pans and timing chain cover off. Didnt go as bad as I feared.

    We jacked the front of the cruiser up until the front tires just left the ground and then slid some jackstands under there. We then removed the bolts and had the first oil pan (is it called the #2 oil pan?) off 5 minutes later. Came off much easier than other's experiences I've read in the archives (finally something goes my way).

    We then removed the bolts of the other pan and quickly realized this one wasnt going to be as easy. We popped the tie rod off and then unbolted the rear swaybar mounts and let the swaybar hang. Next, we took the nuts off of the top of the motor mounts and lifted the front of the motor a half inch. This was plenty of room and the final pan came off with no additional difficulty. No crud in the pans. :)

    At this point, we still couldnt get the timing chain cover off, so it was obvious we were missing something. After feeling around the cover we realized we skipped a bolt... that sucker is right up front but well hidden (should have paid closer attention to the manual as it states number of bolts and nuts to remove).

    The head is out at the machine shop. It's not warped but valve work is needed. $$$

    Next up...

    1. Remove the power steering pump and rebuild it.
    2. Replace the broken timing chain slipper.
    3. More prep/cleanup work (a lot of this remains).
    4. Start putting crap back together ... finally!

    Time spent this evening = 3.5 hours.


    Regards,
    Larry
     
  20. Darwood

    Darwood

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    Head Gasket/timing chain cover work - updated 3/13/04

    Thanks for the update.

    I''m curious, what did you use/how did you lift the motor up an inch after you removed the top nut on the motor mounts?