Head gasket leaking…looking at my options. (1 Viewer)

[BullElk]

‘99 LC 463k miles
Appears head gasket is leaking. Never has overheated to any dangerous degree. Have been getting white smoke in exhaust in morning. Have patched with some success with additive sealant. Now it seems gases are getting into cooling system and rising the temps to 215-220*.

Other than rising temps the engine runs perfectly smooth accelerating and cruising.

Thought I would ask you mudders what may be my best option between… replacing head gasket ($2200 labor quote), replacing with pre 05/00 engine that I haven’t found yet, selling as is or keeping simply because it has a working brake booster that I will wish I had one day.

 

[neoworm]

Just replace the head gaskets yourself and keep going another 500k.

 

[Tres Toys]

That doesn't sound good, but before you throw in the towel on this motor, you might want to consider looking at it a little closer. Sometimes diagnosing head gasket failure by steamy exhaust in mornings can be tough depending on weather conditions and other factors. The increase in temps could also be due to the sealant you added causing restrictions which reduce the cooling systems effectiveness and/or some air in the system. There are some additional steps you might consider for further diagnosing whether it is a head gasket failure. One of the simplest and best ways to diagnose for a bad head gasket is to pull the spark plugs and look for one that is significantly cleaner than the rest. Coolant in the combustion chamber does an AMAZING job at steam clean the spark plug. Also, have you been noticing a loss of coolant? Other common diagnostic steps for a bad head gasket are compression testing the cylinders and pressure testing the coolant system. If its the head gasket, I agree with Neoworm on replacing it yourself if you have the time and tools. Just use factory gaskets and determine if the heads or block need to be surfaced. Best of luck.

 

[OEMGUY0720]

If you have time and patient enough to work on it, I would suggest to tear down the top (head part) so you can inspect it and take photos of the head and see for any deformities. If the surface of the head looks good, then head gasket is inexpensive and is a straight swap. However if the aluminum head is warped or has obvious deformation, that would require a machine lathing work to ensure seal with the new head gasket. That’s my 2 cents.

 

[BPB]

As some one who recently replaced a ‘00 lx470 motor for a blown head gasket, I can tell you that $2200 to repair is significantly cheaper than the engine swap. Granted I did replace other hard to get to items and the headers at the same time but you’re looking at over $10k.

Also finding a used engine wasn’t as easy as it sounds. The re-manufactured engines are made to order and can take 6-15 weeks depending on who you use AND you have to ship them the your engine core.

I’d go with the repair. That being said the lx runs better now than it has it a long time.

 

[awesomeissquid]

Seconding that the engine swap is pricy. I'm still finishing mine up and I did replace some of the hard to get to items. I haven't thought about the total yet, but probably over $10k as well all said and done.

I would agree with pulling the head to see what the gasket looks like. Having just done it on a 2UZs out of the truck I think it is possible to do with everything still installed, just a bit trickier. The FSM has specs to check the flatness, but most in the 80 series recommend getting a machine shop to shave the surface to make sure it is perfect. On mine the head and block checked out within spec so I did not have it shaved, but time will tell if that was a smart move or not.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I'd verify with compression testing just to know what you're dealing with for sure.

 

[BullElk]

That doesn't sound good, but before you throw in the towel on this motor, you might want to consider looking at it a little closer. Sometimes diagnosing head gasket failure by steamy exhaust in mornings can be tough depending on weather conditions and other factors. The increase in temps could also be due to the sealant you added causing restrictions which reduce the cooling systems effectiveness and/or some air in the system. There are some additional steps you might consider for further diagnosing whether it is a head gasket failure. One of the simplest and best ways to diagnose for a bad head gasket is to pull the spark plugs and look for one that is significantly cleaner than the rest. Coolant in the combustion chamber does an AMAZING job at steam clean the spark plug. Also, have you been noticing a loss of coolant? Other common diagnostic steps for a bad head gasket are compression testing the cylinders and pressure testing the coolant system. If its the head gasket, I agree with Neoworm on replacing it yourself if you have the time and tools. Just use factory gaskets and determine if the heads or block need to be surfaced. Best of luck.

I have had to add a little coolant over time. Other things I have done in the process have been....flushed radiator and engine a few times, replaced with new Toyota tstat and rad cap (no change) so I now have a Motorad 170* tstat that is allowing me to drive it with top temps at about 204*.

I haven't looked into the details but I would think that job is too big for me. However, due to it not ever getting real hot nor having any other major issues SO FAR, I wouldn't think that heads would be cracked or warped. But I certainly don't know.

I really appreciate all responses.

 

[BullElk]

As some one who recently replaced a ‘00 lx470 motor for a blown head gasket, I can tell you that $2200 to repair is significantly cheaper than the engine swap. Granted I did replace other hard to get to items and the headers at the same time but you’re looking at over $10k.

Also finding a used engine wasn’t as easy as it sounds. The re-manufactured engines are made to order and can take 6-15 weeks depending on who you use AND you have to ship them the your engine core.

I’d go with the repair. That being said the lx runs better now than it has it a long time.

Seconding that the engine swap is pricy. I'm still finishing mine up and I did replace some of the hard to get to items. I haven't thought about the total yet, but probably over $10k as well all said and done.

I would agree with pulling the head to see what the gasket looks like. Having just done it on a 2UZs out of the truck I think it is possible to do with everything still installed, just a bit trickier. The FSM has specs to check the flatness, but most in the 80 series recommend getting a machine shop to shave the surface to make sure it is perfect. On mine the head and block checked out within spec so I did not have it shaved, but time will tell if that was a smart move or not.

Very good to know. Thanks a lot

 

[JunkCrzr89]

Now it seems gases are getting into cooling system and rising the temps to 215-220*.

Have you checked this with a tester or seen bubbling coolant in the radiator or overflow tank?

I have had to add a little coolant over time. Other things I have done in the process have been....flushed radiator and engine a few times, replaced with new Toyota tstat and rad cap (no change) so I now have a Motorad 170* tstat that is allowing me to drive it with top temps at about 204*.

Could have a leak elsewhere that’s allowing air to enter the system and raise the temps. For example, I had a crack in the upper tank of the radiator that was allowing air to be sucked in and I’d get spikes up to 212*F. Replaced the radiator and temps stay 188-192 now. Also, Have you verified that your fan clutch is working properly? I would exhaust all options unless you have definitive proof of HG leak, which doesn’t sound like you do yet.

 

[BullElk]

Have you checked this with a tester or seen bubbling coolant in the radiator or overflow tank?


Could have a leak elsewhere that’s allowing air to enter the system and raise the temps. For example, I had a crack in the upper tank of the radiator that was allowing air to be sucked in and I’d get spikes up to 212*F. Replaced the radiator and temps stay 188-192 now. Also, Have you verified that your fan clutch is working properly? I would exhaust all options unless you have definitive proof of HG leak, which doesn’t sound like you do yet.

I did use a tester. The blue liquid changed to a green and a tent of yellow. Did not immediately go to a definite yellow color.

Fan clutch is new and does engage. I can tell by the sound and resistance.

 

[BullElk]

I like to keep my number one plug good and oily.

#1 plug is only one with any moisture. A couple are newer than others. Some are from the last millennia it appears.

 

[Tres Toys]

Hmmm, none of those plugs look like what I have experienced with blown head gaskets from cylinder to coolant system. The porcelain insulator on the plug from the affected cylinder was always strikingly shiny white from the steam cleaning action along with the electrode being shiny. That the combustion product test of the coolant system you performed did not turn fully yellow would bring some suspicion as to its accuracy. In my opinion I think it merits doing a bit more diagnosing before declaring it to be a 'blown head gasket'. It's something you definitely want to sort out soon as a blown head gasket can eventually lead to hydraulic locking the motor upon start up, which is a recipe for a bent connecting rod. Best of luck.

 

[nissanh]

Check for any constant bubbling in coolant reservoir tank while engine is running. Check for about 5-10 minutes. I think you do not have a head gasket issue. MAy be a bad radiator, fan clutch..

 

[awesomeissquid]

I like to keep my number one plug good and oily.

#1 plug is only one with any moisture. A couple are newer than others. Some are from the last millennia it appears.

View attachment 2975361View attachment 2975362

Did it seem like the oil was coming from leaking spark plug tube seals or something else?

 

[BullElk]

Check for any constant bubbling in coolant reservoir tank while engine is running. Check for about 5-10 minutes. I think you do not have a head gasket issue. MAy be a bad radiator, fan clutch..

There hasn’t been any bubbling in reservoir even when it was at 200+ degrees. Then after sitting idling, the temp decreases. It increases when driving.

 

[vipergrhd]

Get a leak down tester and watch if coolant overflows in radiator. If you know a shop with a bore scope you can have them look in the suspected cylinder.

 

[awesomeissquid]

+1 on doing a leak down test.

You can also get a $20 borescope on Amazon that is good enough to get you going.

 

[BullElk]

There was a little blue in the smoke but mostly white it seemed. Perhaps it is the oily cylinder causing more smoke than I knew.

 

[2001LC]

I like to keep my number one plug good and oily.

#1 plug is only one with any moisture. A couple are newer than others. Some are from the last millennia it appears.

View attachment 2975361View attachment 2975362

If these are the 8 plugs (1st pic) you just pulled out. I wouldn't expect the engine to run at normal operating temp. Not good, if these plugs are representative of how engine tuned/PM'd. I would expect to see P03** DTC (codes), in this 4.7L.

It's the strangest collection of spark plugs and most confusing info/pic, I've seen. Your showing number #1 in the group that is different and dry, than the #1 by itself very oily. Which is from oil in spark plug tube, not combustion. #4 in group, I see TT/Denso. Which is not a real Denso TT plug. Likely a boot leg.

Bk2 plugs looks cleaner, possibly mild steam clean, than BK1. But with unknown age and mixed matched plugs. I'd not make that call.

I'd verify with compression testing just to know what you're dealing with for sure.

I'd first start by studying head gasket from below. Than look under intake manifold with a flash light, better yet a snake camera or bore scope.

@Trunk Monkey Monkey is spot on. Do a proper compression test "by the book". Wet if weak ones or 14PSI lower than best found. Followed by leak down to further delineate if needed.

In cylinders where rings are believed bad or head gasket leak points suspected. Scope them.

The idea is to find out if you indeed do have a compression issue.

1. If just head gasket. R&R head gasket.
2. Valves issue. Require heads be rebuilt or replaced.
3. Ring/cylinder wall damage. Rebuild or replace engine.

I've done compression tested up to 370K miles and found some very good numbers. The million mile Toyota was said to have zero issues, and hone marks still present in all cylinders. I just did a 315K miles 03, with so much wrong with the over all vehicle. Almost all due to the hands that worked on it, messing it up. Yet it's compression numbers so good. In fact best I've seen. I'll be testing again, doing a special run up to check for oil in cylinder, which can increase PSI. But I'll like be wasting my time. As it passed emission with such good numbers. The states calibration guy happen to be there. He came running out to me just before I drove off, to look out my print out. He couldn't believe it.

Mileage means nothing to the 4.7L. It's all about proper PM.