HDJ81 and Propane Injection (1 Viewer)

[gowyn]

Just wondering if anyone has installed PI on their 81 yet?

I'm gonna do it mainly for the added towing performance but was wondering if any others have had any sucess or results.

 

[nickw]

Don't get propane injection. I spoke to a friend of mine who is a mechanic for FINNING/CAT and he says propane injection (or natural gas) will cause an engine to loose compression early.

I asked him about in regards to my 1HD-T. He has seen the long term effects of propane injection and natural gas injection on CAT engines. I don't think anyone on the board has really seen the long term effects yet. But on a semi the miles racked up fast, so they can see the effects.

The benefits are: You get 25%-40% more power, and your MPG goes up a few (1-3mpg typically). Your oil also stays cleaner longer because you burn more fuel.

Cons:
You would think keeping your oil cleaner would make your engine run better longer. You want to believe (as I did) that it's "FREE" power with no side effects. But in reality (according to my friend who has seen and worked on trucks first hand) it will reduce the life of the engine by 40-50%. It somehow causes early loss of compression.

I am just guessing here, but maybe it creates hot spots, which results in uneven wear?

He told me the best way to get more power was:
-Make sure my timing is properly set up
-Make sure I have clean and properly working injectors
-Make sure my valves are set up right.
-Set up the turbo to hit my desired max pressure.
-Then intercool the truck.
-Then with a Pyro and intercooler installed adjust fuel until my max EGT hit about 1200'

All that should take a 170Hp - 268 ft-lbs 1HD-T to about
230HP and 375ft-lbs of torque, and should do so WITHOUT hurting the engine.

I hope this helps. But there is now way I would put propane injection (or any other gas) on my truck now. He has nothing to gain by me buying it. He is just giving me his honest friend-to-friend advise.

I should also add, that if you start increasing the engine power, you will probably want to add a transmission cooler and possibly an extreme valve body.

So I guess if you don't care that you have to rebuild the engine early, you could add it. Or you could add it, and ONLY use it in those "need the extra power" times. But personally I think an intercooler would be a better bet.

Cheers,
Nick

 

[crushers]

this depends big tome on the AMOUNT of propane you are injecting. if you over inject you are doing two things, wasting propane (a little bit is good a lot, is NOT better) and you are creating more heat in the cylinders and can cause "knocking"...

i inject 3 cfm at max boost with a gradual increase of propane. does your friend have the bullydog system or the Powershot system on the big rigs. i do believe (and could be wrong) that most trucks run the bullydog system which dumps the propane in...

 

[Tapage]

what is the best way to power a Diesel truck .. more boost and huge intercooler

 

[nickw]

this depends big tome on the AMOUNT of propane you are injecting. if you over inject you are doing two things, wasting propane (a little bit is good a lot, is NOT better) and you are creating more heat in the cylinders and can cause "knocking"...

i inject 3 cfm at max boost with a gradual increase of propane. does your friend have the bullydog system or the Powershot system on the big rigs. i do believe (and could be wrong) that most trucks run the bullydog system which dumps the propane in...

To be honest, I never got into the nitty gritty about it with him.
I know very little about propane injection. I know how it works, and the principles, but have no real life experience.

His full time job is a HD mechanic at Finning/Cat so I thought I would ask him.
That is just what he told me. He works at the large dealer in Vancouver.
They are the one that has the 5 million dollar semi dyno.
I remember him telling me about some testing they did with semi's and bio diesel.
Very top secret, and the dyno operator had to sign a waiver that he could not talk about the results.

Cheers,
Nick

 

[gowyn]

interesting,

so who then has added an intercooler to their 81?

 

[nickw]

interesting,

so who then has added an intercooler to their 81?

There are a few people who have done it.
There was a few threads last week about it.
You could probably ressurect them, or start a new one.

I belive a store bought Safari intercooler is about $1000
I have been told you can build your own for about $500.
I would prefer a bolt in solution myself.
I could see the $500 growing with misc parts.

Maybe Wayne and other can could offer a better opinion.
He will know more than I will.

But personally, I would prefer to add an intercooler.
And I plan to do so in the coming years.

Here is the link to the Safari one:
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/safari/turbo/1hdt/intercooler.html

Cheers,
Nick

 

[wussyPup]

I remember him telling me about some testing they did with semi's and bio diesel.
Very top secret, and the dyno operator had to sign a waiver that he could not talk about the results.

You tease!

come on, spill...





OK, if you won't, then, "what % bio would you run in your rig if it were available at a cost effective price?"

Answering that innocent little question won't get you or your friend into trouble.

 

[gowyn]

There are a few people who have done it.
There was a few threads last week about it.
You could probably ressuect them, or start a new one.

I belive a store bought Safari intercooler is about $1000
I have been told you have build your own of similar quality for about $500.
I would prefer a bolt in solution myself. But I could see the $500 growing with misc parts.

Maybe Wayne and other can could offer a better opinion.
He will know more than I will.

But personally, I would prefer to add an intercooler.
And I plan to do so in the coming years.

Here is the link to the Safari one:
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/safari/turbo/1hdt/intercooler.html

Cheers,
Nick

Dan at 4 wheel auto didn't speak too highly of them, could bring a kit in but VERY $$$.

I'll look into PI, probably go this way.

 

[nickw]

You tease!

come on, spill...

OK, if you won't, then, "what % bio would you run in your rig if it were available at a cost effective price?"

Answering that innocent little question won't get you or your friend into trouble.

I can't spill because I don't know.
And niether does my friend.
I drilled him for the info, but he never knew.
I think the mechanic's drilled the dyno operator.
The dyno operator would not say anything, which is fair.

Anyways, beyond that the rumor was a 3% power drop on the dyno.
I am not sure if that is 100% or a blend. I could see it being 100%.
The trucking companies would be very interested if they could make there own fuel. Think about how much money they would save.

Anyways, now the thread is getting sidetracked. Sorry.

Cheers,
Nick

 

[nickw]

Dan at 4 wheel auto didn't speak too highly of them, could bring a kit in but VERY $$$.

I'll look into PI, probably go this way.

Curious, why didn't he like them?

Cheers,
Nick

 

[crushers]

now this is funny, Dan doesn't like intercoolers... why? and when has he ever installed one?

contact these guys:
All American Imports

 

[gowyn]

found thishttp://http://www.ezinearticles.com/?The-Fastest-Way-To-Destroy-Your-Diesel-Engine&id=269770 on PI so far.

No mention yet on premature engine wear.

Wayne, just the impression I got from him, perhaps he meant more so the homemade ones not necessarily the Safari which he said would cost a couple grand.

 

[crushers]

him= Dan?
hummm, i will give him a call...
cheers
BTW, definately contact All American Imports in Holand. they seem to really know their stuff...

 

[nickw]

I contacted APS today.
They quoted $1,298.12USD plus $240USD shipping via DHL air freight.

Cheers,
Nick

 

[bigbrowndog]

http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/View.asp?ForumQID=36770&Page=/Forum/Default.asp?s=0&PN=3

 

[Tapage]

BTW, definately contact All American Imports in Holand. they seem to really know their stuff...

One friend here in Panamá contact they and he explain about the intercooler system they use .. are all with OEM parts .. coz overthere the intercooler is a factory option . !