HDJ80 sometimes will not start (1 Viewer)

[Erwin]

Now solved, see bottom.

I have a manual 1994 HDJ80 with 450.000 km on the odo. 24 V starter. It has during the last year developed an intermittent starting problem. Sometimes, when I twist the key, nothing happens except for a small click in a relay. I wait 10 seconds. Same thing. I wait one minute, sometimes 10, and it starts just as normal.
Before I start digging into this I just wanted to know if anybody can point out the direction.
It really can only be 3 things:

1. Starter Relay
2. 12/24 V relay (or Voltage Converter Relay as Toyota say)
3. Starter solenoid.

The small click suggest that it is not starter relay, but one of the other. What puzzles me is that it just starts as normal after a small wait.

 

[Squash]

Good luck!
Been tinkering with mine as well, in the mean time I've installed a fused momentary switch which starts her via 12v.
For colder days I have another fused lead for 24v starts.
Noticed that either battery will can be used for 12v starting.
It's not that I'm over lazy but we still have snow and skiing is the priority!

 

[roscoFJ73]

What puzzles me is that it just starts as normal after a small wait.

This is pretty normal with malfunctioning starting systems. Try hitting the starter with a solid piece of wood. At 450000 an original starter would be getting tired. Have you cleaned the battery terminals and the earths ?

 

[Squash]

This is pretty normal with malfunctioning starting systems. Try hitting the starter with a solid piece of wood. At 450000 an original starter would be getting tired. Have you cleaned the battery terminals and the earths ?

Not the starter! The solenoid which is closer to the block.
Hitting your starter can loosen the internal magnets...

 

[roscoFJ73]

You dont have to belt it to death. Ive done it a few times, never had a problem. And these starters are as solid as they come.

 

[Erwin]

Stuck solenoid is also what I have been thinking. Maybe dismantle it and clean it and also change contacts. Can you remove the solenoid without removing starter? Battery is ok. I have had a voltmeter connected when trying to start, and there is no voltage drop. So no high currents

 

[IanB]

I'm guessing the plunger and contacts in the starter could use replacement. I did this on mine a few years back as the starter was sticking on, which is quite a bit scarier than it failing to engage! Had to whack it with a piece of wood to get it to disengage!

Getting the starter out of the truck is the bulk of the job, replacing the plunger and contacts only takes about 15min once the starter is out.

 

[Erwin]

There are some posts on UK landcruiserclub.net suggesting it is actually the starter relay that is the problem. One guy changed starter several times, but it was not fixed until he changed the starter relay. I will check this first since I am lazy and this is easy to get to, then the solenoid if that is not the case.
See:
lancrusierclub

 

[Squash]

Starter removal is easy if you remove the tire and rubber skirting.
Mine was in pretty good condition but since it was out decided to change plunger and clean the contacts.
Have you checked the NSS or clutch pedal switch.

 

[Erwin]

Starter removal is easy if you remove the tire and rubber skirting.
Mine was in pretty good condition but since it was out decided to change plunger and clean the contacts.
Have you checked the NSS or clutch pedal switch.

It is a manual, so no NSS. And does it have a clutch pedal switch? Never heard of that.

 

[IanB]

There are some posts on UK landcruiserclub.net suggesting it is actually the starter relay that is the problem. One guy changed starter several times, but it was not fixed until he changed the starter relay. I will check this first since I am lazy and this is easy to get to, then the solenoid if that is not the case.
See:
lancrusierclub

It's pretty well going to be either the relay, or the starter needs a rebuild. I'm not sure how to narrow it down in your case beyond this point.

 

[Greg_B]

During the no start period put a voltmeter at the starter trigger wire and see what is being registered there. I had an intermittent no start on my 1HD-T converted FZJ80, but it had always started after a few attempts. On one trip it did not. Checking the voltage at the trigger wire showed 7V's. I cleaned up the roadside workaround to become a permanent one a few months later. Still running the signal through the stock starter relay, but it's bypassing much of the stock harness.

I'm talking 12V here, so your 24V will be more efficient, but checking the voltage showing at the trigger wire may lead to where the problem is. I also don't have a series/parallel setup to contend with.

All that said, I still have on the to do list pulling the starter and checking/changing the contacts.

Does this thread help at all?

hth's
gb

 

[Erwin]

During the no start period put a voltmeter at the starter trigger wire and see what is being registered there. I had an intermittent no start on my 1HD-T converted FZJ80, but it had always started after a few attempts. On one trip it did not. Checking the voltage at the trigger wire showed 7V's. I cleaned up the roadside workaround to become a permanent one a few months later. Still running the signal through the stock starter relay, but it's bypassing much of the stock harness.

I'm talking 12V here, so your 24V will be more efficient, but checking the voltage showing at the trigger wire may lead to where the problem is. I also don't have a series/parallel setup to contend with.

All that said, I still have on the to do list pulling the starter and checking/changing the contacts.

Does this thread help at all?

hth's
gb

Yes that is a good idea. Problem is only that it tend to start when I try to find the problem...
Anyway, I am thinking of connecting a bulb to the trigger so I can have a more permanent setup. If it only glows at the most when starting, it is the start relay. If that is ok, I move the bulb over to solenoid 24 V input to check if 12/24 V relay is ok. But from what I read the 12/24 V relay is usually not the problem. And if that is OK, it must be the solenoid. I have ordered new contact for it.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I'd remove the starter and change the contacts and plunger. Parts are cheap, and the starter is easy to remove.
A mechanic could have the whole job done in 1½ hours
With the mileage, they'll be ready for a change.

24 volt start tends to erode the contacts faster than 12 volt

 

[Erwin]

Solved:
I was "lucky" and it would not start at all, so it was possible to do some measurements. Both the trigger input and main input (terminal 30 and 50) was at 24V when starting, so it had to be the starter. It was easier than I thought getting it out even I dont have a lift and have to lay on the floor underneath.
The contacts was not very pitted, but the plunger was. Changed all of it and tested starter OK. Reinstalled, everything fine.

 

[IanB]

Solved:
I was "lucky" and it would not start at all, so it was possible to do some measurements. Both the trigger input and main input (terminal 30 and 50) was at 24V when starting, so it had to be the starter. It was easier than I thought getting it out even I dont have a lift and have to lay on the floor underneath.
The contacts was not very pitted, but the plunger was. Changed all of it and tested starter OK. Reinstalled, everything fine.

It was really just the bolt on the top of the starter behind the wiring harness that gave me any trouble, pretty easy repair overall. Glad to hear you got it sorted!

 

[Squash]

Edit whislt sober!
Yesterday I spent today fixing the no 24v start on the HDJ81. 12 and 24 volt use same plugs...stole the pictures!
Seems the feed from PS battery via fusible link 90982-08265 is pooched (RHD)
During the cold of winter I had installed a momentary switched line from DS battery to the "E" terminal on the black/red wire to starter. This setup allows you to start your system via either of the two batteries with key in on position. Not the best when very cold but the coolant heater really helps. Works great when warm!
Great thing is you can bump the starter in the key off position for maintenance.
Today I finally wired a second fused line to the other "ST" wire of Starter Relay 28300-17040( picture is 2800-17030)) to a positive constant supply and have keyed 24v start.
Note: The pooched wire connected to PS fusible link also requires power for charging system otherwise you get the Christmas Tree lights.
Also and easy work around if you ever have a buggered battery.
So, If you'r dickered and really need to start, unplug the white ST/E terminal of starter relay. Grab a wire and make + contact to E, starter should crank, disconnect or isolate wire once started.
If your having intermittent issues, try a new constant +fused line to ST or double check that fusible link at PS battery(RHD).