Hafc Install Thread! (mpg Increase?!) (1 Viewer)

[SS_Storm]

Thanks guys, Ill take a look at it tonight and see if I can give you all some details-
I till install a EGT gauge in the cruiser after this is all getting good gains, Ill have to smog it soon too so I can tell you that also. Otherwise those are not things I test.

 

[Ebag333]

Please don't take my lord's name in vain. I'm off to my local Olive Garden to pray for you.

But..but..but....he tastes so good!

Thanks guys, Ill take a look at it tonight and see if I can give you all some details-
I till install a EGT gauge in the cruiser after this is all getting good gains, Ill have to smog it soon too so I can tell you that also. Otherwise those are not things I test.

A blackstone oil analysis would probably be beneficial as well. I'd be very curious to see what happened to it after 3k miles, especially if you have a few "befores".

 

[NLXTACY]

Is there a way to take a poll now to see how many people just want to see this thing blow up at this point?

 

[NLXTACY]

UGH, couldn't someone have given this thread 5 stars AFTER SOMETHING was proven!??!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[cary]

Boy, I don't check the 80 board for a while and come back to a train wreck. As already addressed by others, this is nothing but snake oil. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[sleeoffroad]

OK, I watched the video of how much gas this thing produces. It was like 1 quart in 45 seconds or something. So this is injected into the airstream in the air intake. What is the air consumption of a 4.5L motor and if this gas is produced at a quart in 45 seconds what is the % of this gas that actually reaches the motor?

 

[Kavik]

OK, I watched the video of how much gas this thing produces. It was like 1 quart in 45 seconds or something. So this is injected into the airstream in the air intake. What is the air consumption of a 4.5L motor and if this gas is produced at a quart in 45 seconds what is the % of this gas that actually reaches the motor?

Engine inhales ~ 4.5l every 2 revolutions divided by the restriction (%) the throttle plate is open. WOT w/ zero vacuum would be a full 4.5l/2 rpm, right?

 

[sleeoffroad]

So that is about 4500L/minute at 2000 rpm, so about 4086 quarts/minute. Say that thing products 2 quarts per minute so we are introducing at a level of 0.00049% and that is giving as a 50% increase in mileage. What am I missing?

 

[SS_Storm]

The hydrogen is not a Fuel substitute its just a accelerator for the burn. the main thing is leaning the fuel once you have it burning faster

 

[JO MAOMA]

So that is about 4500L/minute at 2000 rpm, so about 4086 quarts/minute. Say that thing products 2 quarts per minute so we are introducing at a level of 0.00049% and that is giving as a 50% increase in mileage. What am I missing?

what are you missing, HELLO! you're forgeting these little things called magnets!


dammit man its all about the MAGNETS!!!

 

[sleeoffroad]

I understand it is an accelerator, but I would like to know what is the volume of hydrogen than is added to the fuel to make it so much more efficient. Also how is the hydrogen delivery to the intake regulated, or is it just sucked it as fast as it can be produced?

 

[reffug]

some of you folks need to back it down a bit and let Blake finish and post his numbers.................

end of story.

I have warned previously but if things I don't consider appropriate continue I will bitch slap somebody.

my advice is don't let it be you.

 

[SS_Storm]

I am not sure if I have explained this already so I will now.

on the average engine you have an 8ms gap between when your intake valve opens and when your exhaust valve opens- Gas is engineered to take 33ms to fully burn
So you have all this unburned gas going into your exhaust manifold.
In the space while both your intake and exhaust valves are open fuel begins being sprayed into the cylinder, this is to cool down the fuel so it does not burn in the manifold that is polluting and makes more heat in the engine bay so we have cooled it down and its all stuck in the catalytic converter-
This is where your extra fuel is supposed to be burned so that it doesn't pollute.


I focus all my efforts on trying to get as much of this fuel to burn in your cylinder that way theres less waste. I am not improving the engines efficiency at all. only attempting to get the gas to burn faster. think of it as a burning wood pile- an additive that burns faster and hotter will make the whole thing go up faster.

 

[JO MAOMA]

on the average engine you have an 8ms gap between when your intake valve opens and when your exhaust valve opens...

love to know were this figure comes from, source?

 

[SS_Storm]

LMBO my training class. I have no idea.

 

[sleeoffroad]

on the average engine you have an 8ms gap between when your intake valve opens and when your exhaust valve opens- Gas is engineered to take 33ms to fully burn

Not sure on any of that, but we will let it go.

So you have all this unburned gas going into your exhaust manifold.

So you are saying unburnt gas is expelled on the exhaust stroke?

In the space while both your intake and exhaust valves are open fuel begins being sprayed into the cylinder, this is to cool down the fuel so it does not burn in the manifold

So the engine sprays fuel into the cylinder when both valves are open? By design? and the cooling is by design? Is this on the intake stroke?

that is polluting and makes more heat in the engine bay so we have cooled it down and its all stuck in the catalytic converter-

Not sure what this means?

This is where your extra fuel is supposed to be burned so that it doesn't pollute.

So the whatever percentage hydrogen is going to help the fuel burn when the valves are open?

I focus all my efforts on trying to get as much of this fuel to burn in your cylinder that way theres less waste. I am not improving the engines efficiency at all. only attempting to get the gas to burn faster. think of it as a burning wood pile- an additive that burns faster and hotter will make the whole thing go up faster.

That is fine, but how are you doing it. How much hydrogen are you adding?

 

[Kavik]

I'd like to see someone plumb in a cylinder full of H2 & O2(think welding gas bottle). Then do some experiments with the introduction at med and higher levels. That would take the whole snake oil/battery drain issue out of the equation.

I've been surfing the web hardcore lately on this and it is all over the map. However, I have read a couple of nuggets that referred to real scientific research that suggested the combustion of fuel (gas & diesel) improved.

***Found this info on gassavers.org I'm not suggesting any accuracy, just passing along info...***

{In 1974 John Houseman and D.J/Cerini of the Jet Propulsion Lab, California Institute of Technology produced a report for the Society of Automotive Engineers entitled "On-Board Hydrogen Generator for a Partial Hydrogen Injection Internal Combustion Engine".
In 1974 F.W. Hoehn and M.W. Dowy of the Jet Propulsion Lab, prepared a report for the 9th Inter society Energy Conversion Engineering Conference, entitled "Feasibility Demonstration of a Road Vehicle Fueled with Hydrogen Enriched Gasoline." In the early eighties George Vosper P. Eng., ex-professor of Dynamics and Canadian inventor, designed and patented a device to transform internal combustion engines to run on hydrogen. He later affirms: "A small amount of hydrogen added to the air intake of a gasoline engine would enhance the flame velocity and thus permit the engine to operate with leaner air to gasoline mixture than otherwise possible. The result, far less pollution with more power and better mileage." In 1995, Wagner, Jamal and Wyszynski, at the Birmingham, of University Engineering, Mechanical and Manufacturing>, demonstrated the advantages of "Fractional addition of hydrogen to internal combustion engines by exhaust gas fuel reforming." The process yielded benefits in improved combustion stability and reduced nitrogen oxides and hydrocarbon emissions.}

And another...

{Ok, the misunderstanding here is in what the hydrogen is doing. In a conventional gas engine, thermal efficiency is only around 25%, compared to a diesel engine which runs closer to 35%. Gasoline is typically C9H20, while diesel fuel is typically C14H30. The diesel cycle burns at a higher compression, which means a higher temperature, which means a more complete breakdown and a more efficient engine. Hydrogen because it doesn't have any bonds that need to be broken to burn, will react and burn immediately, compared to gas/diesel that have a much slower reaction time. It is not the energy in the hydrogen, but the reaction rate that is driving up the efficiency. By having the burn start sooner and hotter, the gasoline/diesel fuel breaks down further. This means a more complete burn, giving more power and less pollution at the same time. So, conclusion; the hydrogen is acting like a catalyst, not a fuel. Take a look at:

Great article!

This article was origionally published in Popular Mechanics. It's mostly about turbine hybrid vehicles, which are another interesting subject, but take a look at the reference to Uli Kruger about halfway through.

quote:

"But Goodwin wanted more. While researching alternative fuels, he learned about the work of Uli Kruger, a German who has spent decades in Australia exploring techniques for blending fuels that normally don't mix. One of Kruger's systems induces hydrogen into the air intake of a diesel engine, producing a cascade of emissions-reducing and mileage-boosting effects. The hydrogen, ignited by the diesel combustion, burns extremely clean, producing only water as a by-product. It also displaces up to 50% of the diesel needed to fuel the car, effectively doubling the diesel's mileage and cutting emissions by at least half. Better yet, the water produced from the hydrogen combustion cools down the engine, so the diesel combustion generates fewer particulates--and thus fewer nitrogen-oxide emissions.

"You can feed it hydrogen, diesel, biodiesel, corn oil--pretty much anything but water.""It's really a fantastic chain reaction, all these good things happening at once," Kruger tells me. He has also successfully introduced natural gas--a ubiquitous and generally cheap fuel--into a diesel-burning engine, which likewise doubles the mileage while slashing emissions. In another system, he uses heat from the diesel engine to vaporize ethanol to the point where it can be injected into the diesel combustion chambers as a booster, with similar emissions-cutting effects"}

 

[JO MAOMA]

it just seems to me that if there is only 8ms gap between when
your intake valve opens and when your exhaust valve opens
your engine would be turning about 11,000 rpm...



(but maybe i'm way off, my toddler has sapped what little mental acumen i once had)

 

[sleeoffroad]

some of you folks need to back it down a bit and let Blake finish and post his numbers.................

end of story.

I have warned previously but if things I don't consider appropriate continue I will bitch slap somebody.

my advice is don't let it be you.

Hey, everyone pisses on Shotts when he post shock travel numbers. We can ask questions about this as well, can't we?

I am trying to understand this. I watched the 30 minute video that is not worth the tape it was recorded on, presented by a man that was previously involved in a huge scam.

I think it this stays in tech, we can ask questions. Blake is installing these as a business (or at least for money) and has done the training from the company, so good or bad for him he should answer the questions.

I won't get personal with Blake, but I do want to understand this stuff more, and don't tell me it is secrets only revealed in special technician training, because that is utter BS.

 

[Hilux]

I suggest a "status thread" only Storm can(should) post in...

That way, for someone like me that does not frequent this tech can check up and not have to read through a thousand degrading posts.....


just a thought