H42/H55F - part-time 4WD? (1 Viewer)

[tlin]

80's guy here/3FE ('92) thinking thru some options I might plunk down some $$ against next year. A manual transmission is on the list for consideration......

Reading/researching - this (quoted below) caught my eye - does this really mean that these manual transmissions allow for shifting between 2/4WD??? First sentence has me believing 'yes', last sentence has me believing 'nope'.

Twin sticks - one for 2wd-4wd, one for H-N-L. the stock shifter for the 60 goes forward and backwards and left and right. I couldn't route them where I wanted them and keep the stock movement. Twin sticks also shift smoother and give you 2 low, which will be helpful with the front aussie locker.

Thx gents....

--t

 

[cruisermatt]

Yes

Also you don't NEED twin sticks, they are cool and that's about it. If you really want 2-low there's a section of the shifter bracket that can be ground off.

 

[tlin]

Hmmmmmm......thx for the quick reply. 2WD, noticeably better for street/freeway travel? I'm assuming that's the intended purpose, please enlighten me if that's not the case.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Yes, it's better for freeway travel. Less rotating components = better fuel economy (to some degree at least) as well as less wear and tear on the front axle.

 

[Landpimp]

can't 2 low be done by just not locking the front hubs? I know I had done so on my old 45 pickup

shifting from 2 wheel to 4 wheel high is done on the fly, as long as the hubs are locked

leaving the hubs locked makes it like the 80, you can shift into and out of 4 wheel high on the fly but if its in 4high or 4 low its locked up(no slip) at the t-case, unlike the 80(which can lock and unlock the t--case)

all fj40's came with fixed front hubs, locking hubs were optional, my 82(same as a fj60 drivetrain) still had driveplates(just like the 80) on it when I got it in 2003

 

[tlin]

@GLTHFJ60 - your tag line says it all (......"throwing money at problems that aren't really there").

Ultimately, there's consensus in all I've read that an MT behind a 3FE makes a pretty good improvement for power delivered to the wheels. Does 2WD make yet another noticeable difference as well? Example - freeway run up a pretty steep hill - if you can hold at 55 mph in 4WD, does the exact same hill in 2WD result in a comfortable 65 mph?

The only reason I'm considering the MT is to help with long freeway runs (esp. including hill climbs) and if 2WD makes it even better, that's really good to know. Very generous offer from a local club member to let me drive her H55F/FJ40 in a couple weeks.....no one's got an MT in an 80 so I have to poke around a bit........

Another good item to know is for those that do have a MT, do you wish you had an AT when it comes time for offroading?

Fuel economy - what's that?

Thx again guys

 

[Tapage]

Well I have a manual 60 ( Tencha ) and an manual 80 that was originally auto ( Marilu ) ..

IMHO for us that we are tight on power .. manual it's the best option on and off road .. it allows you to get the most of your engine ..

 

[Landpimp]

I think going from an auto with overdrive to a 4 speed m/t would not be the way I would go, its going to suck on the hwy, looking at 65pmh top end in 4th(depending on tires but assume 4:11 gears). I would look at something like the H55F or the other one.....with overdrive

if your asking if the hubs locked or unlocked(but t-case not locked) effect speed/power, I would say no. I can't notice any difference on any of mine. MPG....I suppose there may a gain with hubs unlocked but its small, not enough for me to ever notice. Part time to me is about less wear and tear on the axle-t-case parts than performance or mileage

Now if your asking if a fj60(or 62) locked(hubs and t-case) into to high range makes a difference, i would say yes, for one.....you can't drive(any distance) in a 60/62 on the pavement when locked into 4 high or low....things start to bind up because the t-case is locked up(unlike the 80 t-case)

love(d) my 92 80 series but honestly.....I don't think I would toss much $ at a trany swap, I would either get something else(93-97) or look at a motor swap.

auto's are nice to wheel.

 

[tlin]

Thx guys - I'm stubbornly staying away from a motor swap. I've gotten to know the 3FE pretty well in the last 2.5 years - I'm no mechanic and starting over at the engine just isn't a direction I want to head.

I appreciate the feedback.

 

[TBDAZ]

I would do this in a second. It would so much better.

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS Jr]

Thx guys - I'm stubbornly staying away from a motor swap. I've gotten to know the 3FE pretty well in the last 2.5 years - I'm no mechanic and starting over at the engine just isn't a direction I want to head.

I appreciate the feedback.

1 word

Turbo

 

[tlin]

1 word

Turbo

It's one of the options I'm also considering......but have the least amount of time spent researching. Anxiously awaiting your build thread updates. and happy to follow in your footsteps...

I would do this in a second. It would so much better.

Do a manual transmission (H55f) swap or a motor swap? Any direct experience with an MT swap to back this up (assuming that's what you meant)?

thx guys....

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

3fe needs 3F bellhousing, clutch fork, TO bearing hub, TO bearing and retainer clips, pilot bearing, 3FE flywheel bolts(special order), 2F flywheel ground and bolt holes drilled over to accept the larger flywheel bolts for the 3FE, 2F clutch kit, trans to bellhousing bolts, bellhousing to block bolts, clutch inspection cover and bolts, late FJ60 clutch pedal bucket(late 85-87), same vintage clutch master, clutch master to slave hard line, clutch slave soft line, clutch slave cylinder and mounting bolts. trans crossmember with frame mounts and transmission mount bushing and all hardware, transmission tunnel cover from late FJ60, H42 or 55F transmission with shifter and bushings and boots and knob, transfer case(either fj60 split mechanical or fj62 vacuum shift case with bearing supported gears and 38mm idler(preferred)) with shifter and links) 2 lo is done by removing some of the bracket on the mechanical shift Tcase, and unplugging the LO gear switch from the harness on a vacuum shift case) you are going to need to add selectable hubs to your fronts or the front will spin regardless of your Tcase positions. Also, plan on doing some rear engine gasket maintenance(rear main, pan, cam plug, side cover...) whadeyefergit?

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

my fj62 has had a 4 speed for the last 16Kmiles...it is a no-brainer-I'd-do-it-again-every-time mod AFAIC...toyota screwed up by ditching the manual option...

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

not 16K, more like 36K...time flys...

 

[Mace]

5 speed (h55F) would be a good option. Your front Birfs will last longer in the process.

Wheeling? That depends on what you do. The control of the auto is much easier than a manual. The H55F has a reasonable low range, but crawling over stuff will not be quite as easy. You'll have to learn to drive a bit differently. If you don't wheel rocks, it won't mater

 

[elripster]

If you search my name and 3FE swap you can see what I did to mate an 80 series 3FE to the H55F. I am running 4.11 gears with 33's.

I will echo that a 4 speed will not be enjoyable on the highway especially with 4.11's unless you have like 35's or something large like that. In that case you are stuck with an effectively taller 1st gear. The 3FE with its wider useful RPM band (compared to the 2f) works well through the H55f's lower 1st - 3rd gears. It feels almost punchy. I like the combination and the extra low 1st gear is nice when crawling.

Frank

 

[tlin]

3fe needs 3F bellhousing, clutch fork, TO bearing hub, TO bearing and retainer clips, pilot bearing, 3FE flywheel bolts(special order), 2F flywheel ground and bolt holes drilled over to accept the larger flywheel bolts for the 3FE, 2F clutch kit, trans to bellhousing bolts, bellhousing to block bolts, clutch inspection cover and bolts, late FJ60 clutch pedal bucket(late 85-87), same vintage clutch master, clutch master to slave hard line, clutch slave soft line, clutch slave cylinder and mounting bolts. trans crossmember with frame mounts and transmission mount bushing and all hardware, transmission tunnel cover from late FJ60, H42 or 55F transmission with shifter and bushings and boots and knob, transfer case(either fj60 split mechanical or fj62 vacuum shift case with bearing supported gears and 38mm idler(preferred)) with shifter and links) 2 lo is done by removing some of the bracket on the mechanical shift Tcase, and unplugging the LO gear switch from the harness on a vacuum shift case) you are going to need to add selectable hubs to your fronts or the front will spin regardless of your Tcase positions. Also, plan on doing some rear engine gasket maintenance(rear main, pan, cam plug, side cover...) whadeyefergit?

I'm always impressed at how easily/quickly some of you guys can bang out this information - thank you for this, it'll help me get my head wrapped around $$ as I continue to ponder this swap.

If you search my name and 3FE swap you can see what I did to mate an 80 series 3FE to the H55F. I am running 4.11 gears with 33's.

I will echo that a 4 speed will not be enjoyable on the highway especially with 4.11's unless you have like 35's or something large like that. In that case you are stuck with an effectively taller 1st gear. The 3FE with its wider useful RPM band (compared to the 2f) works well through the H55f's lower 1st - 3rd gears. It feels almost punchy. I like the combination and the extra low 1st gear is nice when crawling.

Frank

Heck of an engine swap you did - props to you for getting that done (gave me the shivers!).

I'm hoping to drive an H55F FJ40 "soon", get my first impression of what this is like and start to get a bit more focused. Thx again for the inputs here!

-todd

 

[Heckraiser]

Ultimately, there's consensus in all I've read that an MT behind a 3FE makes a pretty good improvement for power delivered to the wheels. Does 2WD make yet another noticeable difference as well? Example - freeway run up a pretty steep hill - if you can hold at 55 mph in 4WD, does the exact same hill in 2WD result in a comfortable 65 mph?

The only reason I'm considering the MT is to help with long freeway runs (esp. including hill climbs) and if 2WD makes it even better, that's really good to know.
Thx again guys

I think your 55mph vs 65mph scenario is way too optimistic. Think more like 55mph vs. 58mph

Manual transmissions are undoubtedly better for mountain driving, but your 80 has a shifter on it. If you were to hit the "OD" button or even leave it in 2nd, the only real difference would be the fact that the auto eats more power before it gets to the wheels, but it's a pretty minor difference. Probably noticeable, but maybe not measurable.

There is no doubt that a manual is better for mountain driving, but don't set your expectations too high

:edit: BTW, 3rd gen 4runner guys who convert to part time 4wd generally note ~1mpg increase and no real seat-of-the-pants power delivery improvement. I think the real benefit is wear and tear.

 

[tlin]

I think your 55mph vs 65mph scenario is way too optimistic. Think more like 55mph vs. 58mph

Manual transmissions are undoubtedly better for mountain driving, but your 80 has a shifter on it. If you were to hit the "OD" button or even leave it in 2nd, the only real difference would be the fact that the auto eats more power before it gets to the wheels, but it's a pretty minor difference. Probably noticeable, but maybe not measurable.

There is no doubt that a manual is better for mountain driving, but don't set your expectations too high

I appreciate the feedback....my desires are HIGH, my expectations certainly aren't. I took my girls to the North Rim of the GC earlier this year for a week's camping trip with a buddy. The drive back, in particular, was terrible. The long, slow climb back up to Flagstaff killed me. Grinding it out at ~45 mph in second was miserable and isn't something I want to repeat.

I love my rig, want to stay Toyota, but find a way for it to be more of a complete Overlander than it is today. Hence the thread and research in the background.

thx again....