h41 tranny

Joined
Feb 17, 2002
Messages
210
Location
monkey town, P.g.c. Utah
I am planning on swapping an h41 tranny in to my cruiser. &nbsp:Does anyone know strong is this tranny compaired to a sm420 or sm465. This tranny seems like a better swap for me seeing how it just bolts in to my drive train
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2002
Messages
210
Location
monkey town, P.g.c. Utah
The h41 is the non us version of the 4 speed it has a first gear ratio of 4.9 and is a straight swap in a 4 speed drive train. I know that you can get these trannys from sor, and maf,and they are cheaper from maf around $500 I think.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2002
Messages
1,323
Location
Bountiful, Utah
The H-41 is my next purchase (To go with my new 4.88's :D) MAF says that they expect a shipment in about 2 weeks, I am going with this over the 465 because of ease of installation, If and when I go V8, I will consider the SM465, the 420 is too old for me to trust.
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2002
Messages
15,332
Location
OC, CA
The 420 is too old for me to trust.

Age isn't an issue for their reliability. The metal is not subject to fatigue and new parts like bearings and synchros are available cheaply. SM420s are easy to come by. It may be a cheaper swap in a 3sp FJ40 or FJ55 and with the 7.05 first gear and 3sp Tcase you get a 50% reduction in gear ratio over the H41 + 4sp case that you can use out on the trail.
 
Joined
Apr 20, 2002
Messages
1,525
>the 420 is too old for me to trust.

and a 23 + year old unknown condition Aussie Toyota tranny is better?

Unlike a US item, the internals of the H41 (pre 1981) are non US parts and many are very hard if not impossible to find. At least a split case H41 shares some parts (key) with H55's which are making their way into the US system piece by piece. And you are trusting MAF and their high quality used parts for a 4.9:1 tranny?

best, of luck. I am with PH, do the sm420 if you don't want OD. And used H55's for over $750 w/ or w/o t-case is not a bargin either (aussie supplied). I know of 5 Tucson delivered H55's (from MAF) that either the tranny and/or the transfer were unusable.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2002
Messages
1,323
Location
Bountiful, Utah
>the 420 is too old for me to trust.

and a 23 + year old unknown condition Aussie Toyota tranny is better?

Unlike a US item, the internals of the H41 (pre 1981) are non US parts and many are very hard if not impossible to find.  At least a split case H41 shares some parts (key) with H55's which are making their way into the US system piece by piece.  And you are trusting MAF and their high quality used parts for a 4.9:1 tranny?

best, of luck.  I am with PH, do the sm420 if you don't want OD. And used H55's for over $750 w/ or w/o t-case is not a bargin either (aussie supplied).  I know of 5 Tucson delivered H55's (from MAF) that either the tranny and/or the transfer were unusable.

You dont have to be an a****** about it, it was my opinion, not a personal attack on you, I am not spending your money, alot of parts are no longer available for the 420, not too mention the fact that I would have to purchase a bellhousing, clutch, adapter plate and the various other things, bringing me to around $1000 for a dependable setup, I can purchase 2 H-41's for that price and still have Toyota reliability (My current Tranny has over 200,000 miles and alot of abuse).

MAF did this MAF did that, do you buy parts ever, because I have had situations with all kinds of companies giving me bad apples.
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2002
Messages
15,332
Location
OC, CA
Hope you don't think I am an a$$h@le by just disputing the facts.

All sm420 parts are available, easily as used parts and even as NOS (new old stock). You can even get brand new comlete 420s. You just have to look for the new parts; they are not at your GM dealer. Parts availability may be worse in the US for the H41. The first gear synchro on the H41 has a tendency to wear out. The synchro is big $$$, but this is not a big deal because you just run it when it is worn out. The output shaft has the same tendency to wear as the H42.

The SM420 swap can be done for under $500 even if you have a 4sp case. New adaptor plates are about $200. F bellhousings are cheap. You don't need a new clutch, just the disk. There are 1000s of sm420s running around in cruisers, so you can bet they are dependable.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2002
Messages
1,323
Location
Bountiful, Utah
Hope you don't think I am an a$$h@le by just disputing the facts.

All sm420 parts are available, easily as used parts and even as NOS (new old stock).  You can even get brand new comlete 420s.  You just have to look for the new parts; they are not at your GM dealer.  Parts availability may be worse in the US for the H41.  The first gear synchro on the H41 has a tendency to wear out.  The synchro is big $$$, but this is not a big deal because you just run it when it is worn out.  The output shaft has the same tendency to wear as the H42.  

The SM420 swap can be done for under $500 even if you have a 4sp case.  New adaptor plates are about $200.  F bellhousings are cheap.  You don't need a new clutch, just the disk.  There are 1000s of sm420s running around in cruisers, so you can bet they are dependable.  

I would do it if I could believe it, I have a hard enough time finding 465's around here (although I have not tried real hard) and I always thought the adapter would add around 4 inches to your drivetrain, I dont have that room or the tools to build a new rear crossmember.

I am aware of the thin and simple kits for the 3 speed T-case, but not the 4 speed T-case.
 
Joined
Apr 20, 2002
Messages
1,525
slower-
I never buy parts, they just magically appear via UPS.

But back to issue at hand.
If a pre 1981 H41 needs a main (output) $655 (list), synchronizer $518, second gear non US part, counter shaft discontinued, input shaft discontinued, first gear discontinued. I did not check the rest of the gears, but basically servicing one could run in the $1,000's.

sm420's can use a Mike "Spaceghost" Smythe adapter for $100 and a 3sp bellhousing (does anyone still charge for these???). There are 35 sm420's at the local wrecking yard here, one or more has to be good. PH is in So Cal and can find them, can't be that hard.

For OD's, I believe in H55's and split case technology. No new US Toyota supplied H55 has been bad. The one instance of Land Cruiser Connection's H55 being bad out of the box was a surplus tranny from where?, you guessed it Australia.

I bought rear FF from MAF (3) and two of those were worn and one incomplete (an early too). I traded parts to Marv for a J60 FF that ended up having seal surface wear. I laid hands on 5 MAF supplied H55's that had metal (serious) in the tranny and/or transfer. I bought and used (40K) a H55 combo from Specter that was sold to Tim Coffey who upon teardown (after miles of use) found gears "welded together" in the transfer and suspect. Those aussie wrecking yards often sell crap (ask those who bought "F H41's" from Eric Blase. These are the same guys who supply MAF and SOR.

AT least, it the stuff is never corroded as the mine surplus I have bought and thrown out from Canada- the 70 FF's that looked like kaleidoscopes through the diff cover etc etc.
 
Joined
Nov 17, 2002
Messages
41
Hey woody do you have classiccruisers email address by any chance? The link on their page is not working for me for some reason. Stupid school admins is my geuss.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Messages
586
Ok all this bad press on the H41's has got me thinkin that maybe i should try an SM420/sm465 instead of going with an H41 at some point..my one concern is that i am using a PTO winch and wonder if the PTO would still be able to be used.

Stew
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Messages
586
Ok so i did some searchin in the tech section under sm420/sm465 and it looks like the PTO is NOT usable unless i went with and SM420/465 PTO box.....oh well....looks like i will save up for a "good" h41..maybe i should just buy the toybox instead hehe probably better that way:)

Stew
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2002
Messages
1,323
Location
Bountiful, Utah
~3/4" plate for the SM465 conversion - http://www.classiccruisers.com out of Salida CO.  It's the plate I use now.  (Not nearly as cheap as the SM420 plate tho, largely because CC is the only place making it...)


Does this 3/4 inch plate apply to the 4 speed t-case, if not I am looking at another $200 and a potentially weaker and or bad t-case.

You have caught my attention, but I am still confused.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom