Gremlins-i need help from any electrical gurus out there (1 Viewer)

[Amamet]

here it goes, thought i had a simple headlight grounding issue, but it seems to be more than that. here what i found out:
-with no key
turning of the light switch gets:
-deep buzz from relay
-illuminated turn signal lights
-dimmer dial makes buzzing loud or low
-brake, battery, high beam and turn signal lights illuminate (with 2 clicks forward)
-pull back lever get the same

-with key on or running and 2 clicks of the light switch forward
kinda same as above but...
push of the washer button on stalk, rear washer rocker and antenna up will
-kill the fan
-dim the clock
-illuminate both turn signals

is this more than a faulty combination switch? where do i possibly look?
thanks
allen

 

[Amamet]

of course, no headlights. high or low beam. all other lighting works fine

 

[Amamet]

Also with key on and light switch off, front and rear washer and antenna up have no affect on the heater, clock or hazard lights

 

[Pin_Head]

it sounds like a floating ground or ground loop problem. The way to trouble shoot it it to get a long piece of wire and attach one end to the battery negative post and then touch the other end to various pieces of sheet metal in the headlights, fenders and dash and see if it makes the problem go away. If it does, that piece of chassis has a bad ground.

 

[Amamet]

Trying to wrap my head around how turning the lights on can make the washer switch interrupt the heater

 

[Pin_Head]

It is the kind of thing that happens with a floating ground. The metal that the heater is normally grounded to is disconnected from ground due to corrosion or loose screws. The heater finds a ground through something else that is connected to the same ground, like the lights. When you turn the lights, the ground is now energized with battery voltage, which shuts down the ground path for the heater.

Anytime something strange turns on or off in response to turning something else on, it is usually a floating ground.

 

[Amamet]

Sure it's not this simple but does this mean the headlight switch, heater, wipers, antenna switch and clock share the same ground? Btw, the headlights don't work, don't think the switch is grounding

 

[Pin_Head]

Not really. The circuits typically go: battery > fuse > switch > device > ground.

Switches are not grounded.

It is more than one device that shares the ground. Why not check it out? It might take all of 5 minutes to run a test wire.

 

[CLove]

Echoing Pinhead, excellent advice for finding a floating ground.

The combination switch in the steering column is after (per Pinhead's stated circuit path) the devices controlled and provides contact to ground.

C
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[Amamet]

i know the switch isn't a ground but doesn't it complete the ground for the lights? if i ground the wire from the light sockets the lights illuminate. also if i ground the white and black wire coming off the blue block from the switch i get lights, i guess that (like what was said) i have a faulty ground somewhere between where the switch connects to the harness and the body. i haven't had much time to check this truck out as i just picked it up a few days ago. i love to find where that wire grounds to, think the fsm says right pillar, but where?
after this blizzard were about to have ill try the ground wire advice, unfortunately my time is limited
thx
allen

 

[Pin_Head]

No, the switch is typically upstream from the lights, which are then ground. The white wire with black strip is a ground wire and the fact that it works when you ground it shows that it is a floating ground that has a connection to something that isn't properly grounded. Just keep doing the tests and you will find the places that need better grounding You can either clean up and tighten the original ground or install a ground wire from the panel to the frame.

 

[torfab]

I second pinheads advice, last time we had a similar issue, it turned out to be a ground problem

 

[Amamet]

so i saw another thread from a while back and ran a ground line like pinhead said from the body of the cigarette lighter to a bolt on the door. viola, everything works. million dollar question is where do i go from here? i have a lot of serious family stuff going on and can't think properly. i would love if someone can narrow this down for me
thx
allen

 

[Amamet]

if possible

 

[CLove]

The combination switch on an FJ60 provides contact to ground for low/high beam headlights, tail lights, flasher & wiper relay, & windshield washer. Been there. Pinhead is correct for the majority of auto circuits and the remainder of what the combo sw controls. I previously replaced my combo switch because the internal ground contact for my high beams was burnt, and the switch is exceptionally hard to repair.

The ground wires are White w/ a Black stripe. The primary dash grounding points are near the A-pillars on each side of dash. All these circuits, that don't ground to chassis near the load, should be on the DS. The secondary points are "a = located on instrument panel under side of side fuse block" and "b = located on instrument panel left side of side fuse block". Front turn and indicator grounds also return to these points.
There are also some common ground junction blocks under the dash for some of these circuits that should be inspected.

Do you have FSM schematic? Not sure where but there is definitely a link somewhere on the MUD for a pdf version. May clear up some of the confusion.

No one can give a certain answer at a distance without enuf of the data. Keep pluggin away and update.

C

 

[Pin_Head]

Just run a new ground wire from the dash to somewhere that is really grounded, like the body or the frame. Many times this is easier than fixing the original ground. Toyota got schooled about bad grounds and it has many more redundant ground wires on all the major panels and devices on later Landcruisers.

 

[torfab]

That ground is located under the left front pillar, check by the hood release lever, undo that 10mm head bolt grounding a bunch of white/black wires and clean it up then re-attach.

 

[morganism]

Ground strap that ties engine to body.

Nope, is up top, center top engine compartment. Ring connector.

Dang


Also just pointed out to someone else there is a major weakness in the power cable from alt to the bottom of the fuse block.
Connector on the bottom is typically bad in 4Runners.

 

[slcfj62]

This trouble shooting guide may help you.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/423985-headlight-troubleshooting-thread.html

 

[Output Shaft]

Some more additional info (with pictures) for others trying to troubleshoot headlight problems and weird crazy dash indicator light problems. The pictures below were from a '86 FJ60. Other years may be similar.

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This picture below shows the common grounding location on the passenger's side. As noted previously by Pin_Head, it is located behind the kick panel up a bit under the dash on the A-pillar. The passenger's side is very easy to see and access. A few ground wires are crimped together to a single ring terminal and bolted to this location. Check tightness of this bolt. If the connection here is suspect, remove the bolt, clean up the ring terminal and bolt with fine emery and screw back in. A largish gauge white/black grounding wire here leads to another grounding wire junction nearby which joins several small white/black ground wires to it.

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This picture below shows the driver's side common grounding location on the driver's A-pillar. It looks very similar to the passenger's side, with the same type of wire connection. It is kind of hidden and takes a bit of neck craning from down near the floor with a headlamp to see it. The picture below was taken with a small camera placed up next to it. You can not see it this well with just your eyes.

Check the tightness of this bolt. I replaced the original one with a new shiny Toyota bolt. If in doubt of the connection, remove the bolt, clean everything up and reinstall. The original bolt was 1-1/2 turns loose!.

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Picture below shows the passenger's side grounding junction located in the wiring harness. Some of the black harness-wrap protection has been removed in this picture to gain access to the wires. The cabin fan damper can be seen in the background (for reference). The white plug with the green arrow looks like a plug, but it isn't a plug. It is a "common connector" for all the smaller ground wires to join up to one spot. The large white/black wire you can see at the bottom of the group is the one that leads to the A-pillar ground on the passenger' side, as shown above. Carefully examine this grounding junction for frayed wires, poor contacts, melted jacket insulation or any signs of burning.

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This picture below shows the driver's side ground wire junction. The metal cap at the end joins all the black/white ground wires together to a shared junction. A larger gauge white/black wire leads from it up to the driver's side A-pillar common grounding point like the passenger's side does. Examine this plug carefully, but do not disassemble it unless something suspicious is detected.

On to the next post, for more pics...and the discovery of this particular headlight/dash indicator problem.