Getting the Silent Treatment, need some expertise (1 Viewer)

[oleblue62]

Just so you know, I spent two days pouring through threads to see if anyone has addressed this issue. I found some things that I'll try, but couldn't find my specific problem addressed, similar, but not quite. I need your help.

My 88 fj62 would always start fine, but if I turned it off before the engine warmed it would only start up again about 80% of the time and would always start after letting it sit for 30min to an hour. Couldn't jump it, battery was/ is good.

NOW, the truck won't start at all. All electrical turns on but it won't even click when I try and start it, nothin. So, through a few conversations and some fact finding through other threads I diagnosed it as the starter, got a rebuilt one from Cruiser Dan, installed it, and still nothing. Double checked my install and nothing appeared incorrect.

Today I'm going to go through and clean as many contacts as possible and check for corrosion.

WHAT IS GOING ON??!! i've even spoken to her nicely, giving me the silent treatment.

 

[dallen341]

Did you check for a 12v signal that engaes the starter when you turn the ignition key? There is likely 2 connections on the starter. On is a heavy 12 volt cable that supplies power to the starter. The other is the one that engaes teh solenoid on teh starter. When you turn the ignition key to crank her over you should have 12 vdc at the small wire.

Also, check that teh heavy gauge cable to teh starter is not corroded internally (most likely at the lugs).
Good luck

 

[oleblue62]

I've never worked with electrical before, so Im probably going to ask a lot of questions. I'll go and check those out right now.

If i'm getting less than 12v does it mean i need a different starter, or there simply isn't enough voltage getting to it, therefore wires are bad?

 

[dallen341]

If you don't get a full 12+ volts I would start to suspect the ignition switch. I don't have a schematic in front of me so I'm working off memory. I had heat soak issues with my Chevy 350 starter so I added a relay to overcome the issue.

 

[slcfj62]

Just so you know, I spent two days pouring through threads to see if anyone has addressed this issue. I found some things that I'll try, but couldn't find my specific problem addressed, similar, but not quite. I need your help.

My 88 fj62 would always start fine, but if I turned it off before the engine warmed it would only start up again about 80% of the time and would always start after letting it sit for 30min to an hour. Couldn't jump it, battery was/ is good.

NOW, the truck won't start at all. All electrical turns on but it won't even click when I try and start it, nothin. So, through a few conversations and some fact finding through other threads I diagnosed it as the starter, got a rebuilt one from Cruiser Dan, installed it, and still nothing. Double checked my install and nothing appeared incorrect.

Today I'm going to go through and clean as many contacts as possible and check for corrosion.

WHAT IS GOING ON??!! i've even spoken to her nicely, giving me the silent treatment.

If you don't hear any click when you turn the key, but you are confident your battery is good, then take a hammer and give your starter a couple of love taps. You don't need to tap it very hard. If it starts up after that, then you are due for new starter contacts. You can get a kit from Toyota with all the parts. There is a thread on this in the FAQ section. It's called "FJ62 Starter Rebuild Instructions." This cured my intermittent starting issues.

 

[lehiguy]

So right now, no solenoid engagement at all? You need to put a test light on the switched lead to the starter with the key in the crank position. IIRC, this is black with a yellow stripe. For that mater, you should try the main lead from the battery as well. Take a look at the fusable link coming off the battery. This supplies everything (on a 60 anyway) but the main starter circuit which is direct. None of this explains your previous issues which I understand to be that it would crank but not start, correct?

 

[oleblue62]

I need to make sure I did this right. I touched the tip of the positive probe to the smaller wire that runs to the solenoid and I grounded the negative and it checked out at exactly 12v. The battery was putting out the same.

What now?

 

[oleblue62]

Its a fresh rebuilt starter from Cruiser Dan that I installed yesterday, and it won't even crank or click, completely silent.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I would try hot wiring the neutral safety switch associated with the transmission. That's the one that lets you start only in Park. It can do funky things when it gets old and cranky. It sounds like everything else is fine-battery, wiring etc.

I agree it could also be the ignition switch, but the pattern is almost too consistent for that.

Bad starter contacts are a possibility but you ruled that out with a new starter.

 

[dallen341]

If it were me I would disconnect that small wire and then use a screwdriver to cross the battery cable to the solenoid to see if the starter engages (key off, gear selector in neutral, e-brake on, limbs clear of everything that moves in engine compartment, tires blocked, safety goggles on).

If she turns over then the signal to the solenoid is weak. 12v maybe but due to resistance somewhere unable to supply enough current to engage the solenoid.

 

[oleblue62]

If it were me I would disconnect that small wire and then use a screwdriver to cross the battery cable to the solenoid to see if the starter engages (key off, gear selector in neutral, e-brake on, limbs clear of everything that moves in engine compartment, tires blocked, safety goggles on).

If she turns over then the signal to the solenoid is weak. 12v maybe but due to resistance somewhere unable to supply enough current to engage the solenoid.

My brother-in-law did this with the old starter and she fired up and it got him home. So it could then be old/ corroded wires?

This could be it, but it also goes against what cruiserdrew pointed out. How do I check if its the ignition switch?

 

[Cruiserdrew]

My brother-in-law did this with the old starter and she fired up and it got him home. So it could then be old/ corroded wires?

This could be it, but it also goes against what cruiserdrew pointed out. How do I check if its the ignition switch?

All this does is provide a hot 12 volts to the solenoid. It does not tell you why it isn't getting there in the first place. It can be anywhere that lies in the path from the battery to the solenoid.

If I remember (I'm at work with no manual and could be remembering it wrong) you have the ignition switch, the neutral safety switch and the starter relay in that circuit. All have to be good to get power to the starter solenoid. Trace it out with a volt meter. In situation where it's intermittent, the volt meter does not always tell the tale.

Start with the easy stuff. It works some of the time, so the wires are likely OK, because if they were broken or off the connector, it wouldn't work at all. Suspect switches, and relays first. You need a wiring diagram, so I hope you have one. With that, you should be able to trace it out.

 

[dallen341]

Just realized this is an auto trans so neutral safety switch may be an issue. My reason for suggesting 12vdc directly to the starter solenoid is to eliminate the starter as the issue. If she cranks with the 12 v to the solenoid we know to look elsewhere. The starter neutraal switch is next in my eyes. Jumper it and try starting using the ignition switch. In fact, if it works i would leave it jumpered for a day or two to confirm that it is the real problem.

 

[oleblue62]

Just realized this is an auto trans so neutral safety switch may be an issue. My reason for suggesting 12vdc directly to the starter solenoid is to eliminate the starter as the issue. If she cranks with the 12 v to the solenoid we know to look elsewhere. The starter neutraal switch is next in my eyes. Jumper it and try starting using the ignition switch. In fact, if it works i would leave it jumpered for a day or two to confirm that it is the real problem.

I'm sorry, that was over my head. Where is the neutral safety switch? and how would I go about "jumper"ing it? (apologies for the awful grammar on that one.)

She doesn't crank at all.

Also, i checked the voltage of the 7 wires coming from the ignition. 6 of them registered 12v, 1 of them registered 0. Could this be the issue, or still possibly one of many?

Thanks to all of you guys for walking through this with me, its encouraging and tremendously helpful.

 

[dallen341]

So no crank when jumper from heavy 12 v @ starter to small signal @ starter? I'd suspect either the heavy cable (probably corroded lug/s at one end or the other or both) or the starter she is no bueno.

 

[oleblue62]

So no crank when jumper from heavy 12 v @ starter to small signal @ starter? I'd suspect either the heavy cable (probably corroded lug/s at one end or the other or both) or the starter she is no bueno.

My reply with "She doesn't crank at all" was misplaced.

Can you explain how I jumper?

 

[John Smith]

How old is your battery? Turn on your head lights and try to start the truck. Do your headlights dim considerably? Reading only 12 volts, I would test your battery before anything else. If you have corrosion on either battery cable they may by completely corroded inside and that may be your issue. Unfortunately to test for internal corrosion you will need to sacrifice the cable by slicing into the insulation. I had a intermittent start issue like yours caused by a internally corroded battery cable.

 

[dallen341]

You have to find the starter neutral switch. I don't know where it is but suspect it is on the linkage on the transmission. There will likely be 2 wire attached to it. When the transmission is in P/N the switch will be closed (passing current) and allow the 12 vdc signal from the ignition switch go to the starter solenoid.

When the transmission is in other that P/N teh switch is open (no current passes) and the 12 vdc signal to the starter is interrupted.

If you jumper the switch where the wires connect (or pull the wires off and tie them together) you bypass the switch. if the truck turns over consistantly in the jumpered condition we know the P/N switch is no bueno.

If the problem persists with the P/N jumpered we know to look elsewhere. The idea here is to eliminate variables thaat may be the problem. So, 1st we tried jumpering 12 vdc to teh solenoid. if that works then the starter is not likely the problem and we look elsewhere. Now we try the P/N switch and either confirm or eliminate that it is the culprit. I would try the easy stuff first (which we are doing) then proceed to the more difficult such as the ignition switch. It may be that ultimately all this testing leads to th ignition switch. It could be that the contacts in the ignition switch are toast. i don't know if the switch itself is seerviceable other than to replace it. However, I would try to eliminate all teh other variables before digging into it.

 

[dallen341]

2 alligator clips with wire between them make a good jumper. The idea is to make the connection from one wire to another that the P/N switch would be making if it were good.

 

[oleblue62]

dallen341

Ok, i think i'm beginning to understand how this works. I have not yet tried to jumper the 12v to solenoid. I want to double check this with you. I connect the 12v (black and yellow wire from neg.) to the solenoid.

Do i touch the 12v to the connection at the solenoid while the solenoid is still attached to the starter, or should it be screwed on with it?