Funky assed engine rebuild complete! (BUT, clutch noise) (2 Viewers)

[Radish150]

Well, for thos a ya that tuned into my posts regarding saving an old F motor in the Amazon jungle, complete with broken rod bolts (hey not my fault man) and what all, it´s done and its running. The had 4 new rod bolts machined from 12mm grade 12 (?) bolts to match the old ones exactly and then ground them down to proper weight with a dremel, yah they work, what did you think they wouldnt? Anyway after double checking all the tolerances I could, I stuck it all together. I was a little shocked at how tight it seemed, since the crank was like "butta", rods were too, so it was the pistons and rings that were the culprit. Anyway it was a little tough to get started the first time but when it caught it sounded great. I let it run for 10 min and changed the oil and then went out and drove it. It has loosened up nicely and turns over and starts easily. Oil pressure is now "ok" at about 10 at hot hot hot idle. All in all im happy about the results...but my dirty little secret is I plan to sell it soon and buy another 76 fixer upper I have located and restore that using what I have learned from the 67.

For the mean time though, the only frustration is my damn clutch noise is still present and for the life of me I cant figure out why. When I found the pilot bearing was rough, I was sure that was what was causing the noise, but new pilot bearing and the noise persists. The TO bearing was replaced a couple of months ago too. Strangest thing is every time I take the tranny out and put it back in the noise goes away for an hour or so then comes back? Also I can make the noise go away by putting pressure on the clutch pedal, it goes silent about the time the clutch disengauges the motor. Any ideas what this could be? I´m wondering if it could be poorly adjusted pressure plate fingers squeeking on the TO bearing??? I´m tempted to buy another (this time AMERICAN) TO bearing and carefully adjust the fingers, but any other ideas on what could be causing this persistent noise that IS DRIVING ME CRAZY!!!! i HATE MECHANICAL NOISES ... ok sorry, would really be appreciated.

So when i get the half doors on, and some other details finished I will post pics of what a total investment of about 4500$ into this cruiser looks like. And Oh, btw... you guys talking about noisy cruisers? This thing is SMOOTH, except for the clutch issue the only noise I can hear is the whoosh of radial tires. So, lots more stuff to do but at least it´s on the road again... whahoo!

Thanks for all the patient (usually) help from the crew

 

[Radish150]

Ok, a diligent search brought up much info on yes, the fingers being out of adjustment, and... drum roll, a spring attached to the fork to hold the bearing off the fingers? Will investigate further.

 

[lostmarbles]

Perhaps there is a lot of play between the male and female splines where the clutch plate sits on the gearbox input shaft? Or perhaps the input shaft bearing is worn inside the main gearbox?

But it would be hard to tell whether this second problem is present - Because that shaft is always able to wobble a lot (when its other end isn't supported in the pilot bearing). (How much wobble is too much wobble???)

 

[igotta40]

Clutch fork is rattling.

 

[amaurer]

I doubt its the clutch fork/fingers, he said it rattles until the clutch disengages... meaning its rattle-ing while the fingers and bearing are heavily loaded and then magically stops when the input shaft stops spinning. That says one thing to me:

its in the transmission.

 

[Radish150]

Case closed.

All good ideas, but happily all WRONG! Ya know, around these parts you gotta get your head under the vehichle once in a while and check just what the hell is going on, cuz the mechanics around here have SHYTE FOR BRAINS! I took it down to the goodyear place and asked them to look at it, they said it was the TO bearing but all it needed was to have a bit of play in the slave adjuster rod and a spring installed where there was allready a hole in the clutch fork for that use. Actually, all I did was give it some play, and I can hear it wanting to make the noise when the fork is resting on the forward side rather than the back side, the spring will cure that. Wow, actually an easy fix for once. You know the problem here is labor is so cheap that I´m getting quite lazy (but not fat yet) and I need to keep better clued in on whats going on myself. $%&/$·S stole my snap on impact screwdriver too..... Good thing I´m a passivist, I would be looking for a glock by now if I wasnt, still might..:

 

[lostmarbles]

.....All good ideas, but .... all WRONG......

Sorry Radish. Can't accept that.

I command that you pull your gearbox and commence a full "recondition" immediately

 

[igotta40]

So I was wrong, is wasn't the clutch fork rattling.....? ;p

 

[Radish150]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radish150 View Post
.....All good ideas, but .... all WRONG......
Sorry Radish. Can't accept that.I command that you pull your gearbox and commence a full "recondition" immediately

Haha, don´t worry Marbles, you can rest assured that with a little patience, I will soon be wasting plenty of time on more than one useless sidetrack. It just wont be the tranny.

Quote:
So I was wrong, is wasn't the clutch fork rattling.....?

Well, if you consider the fact that the clutch fork does indeed touch the opposite side of the throwout bearing, of which the other side was REALLY rattling against the poorly adjusted pressure plate fingers, which were ACTUALLY making the noise, then yes in a rather abstract, obtuse and purely indirect sort of way, yes Carnac, you were 100%, ABSOLUTELY, CORRECT!!!!

(That´s for those who remember Johnny Carson).

Cheers peeple, I promise I´ll be back soon to torture you all with more questions and commnets that reflect my propensity for terrifying attempts to flaunt conventional wisdom and fly in the face of common sense, all the while making a total mockery of social decorum all without even breaking a sweat.

 

[Mace]

how many miles do you expect out of this motor???

 

[Radish150]

how many miles do you expect out of this motor???

Gee I dunno, how many miles do YOU expect me to get out of this motor? You want to start up a betting pool or something?

 

[Radish150]

How bout 400,000 miles?

 

[Fast Eddy]

how many miles do you expect out of this motor???

It's a tractor. No matter how f'd it is, it'll go 100k mi. Like they say in Graton, "It's good enough for your truck."

 

[Mace]

Gee I dunno, how many miles do YOU expect me to get out of this motor? You want to start up a betting pool or something?

Enjoy..

 

[Trollhole]

how many miles do you expect out of this motor???

Gee I dunno, how many miles do YOU expect me to get out of this motor? You want to start up a betting pool or something?

Funky assed engine rebuild with 100 over pistons and 30 over crank and homemade rod bolts will not equal anything over 10,000 miles in my book.

But if you drive it like a tractor motor would (less than 20 mph) it may last you a lifetime.

I have no idea.

 

[ranger]

Just make sure if you sell it you let the prospect know what you did with the engine................

 

[Radish150]

Peanut gallery



THole wrote-

"Funky assed engine rebuild with 100 over pistons and 30 over crank and homemade rod bolts will not equal anything over 10,000 miles in my book".

Ok, first of all my earlier post referencing "100" over pistons is the same as .040 over but measured in mm (metric system), verstehen dumkoff ??? Gee I´m glad we could clear that up, but seems I have done something terribly wrong in haviing my crank ground .040 under? BTW, pistons are over, bearings are over, crankshafts are ground UNDER, not ground over. But more importantly, seems you are somewhow privy to some little known information that dictates that it is a mistake to use .040 bearings on a crankshaft? Wow, that I´m sure will come as news to many so please dont delay in enlightening us all as to the arcane details of this wisdom you hold. You see I´m a humanitarian and dont want others to suffer the same error as myself. Quickly now, time is of the essence!

More arcane wisdom from THole

"But if you drive it like a tractor motor would (less than 20 mph) it may last you a lifetime". I have no idea.

My god, with literary skills like that you should be writting ad copy! Or at least have your own radio show like "click and clack" . Ok then, I will take your advice and drive my rig "like a tractor motor would" ... yes indeed.


On a slightly more serious note, those friken rod bolts some of you are deriding, I had those custom machined from grade 10.9 bolts and I would bet money they are significantly stronger than the originals. They have the same head shape, shoulder and thread configuration exactly and were weighed to within a gram of the originals, so PEESAuwwf!

More advice-
Just make sure if you sell it you let the prospect know what you did with the engine................

Yes sir, I´ll tell them I rebuilt it and show them the receipts, thanks.

TaTa
Mark

 

[lostmarbles]

Methinks you like "heated discussions" and consider the usual stuff to be boring Radish.

I would think you'd be a good man to enjoy a technical discussion with over a few beers. (- But you're a bit far away for me to find out.)

You add a bit of "colour" to the forum (and Marshall/Trollhole would have to appreciate that).



Enticing people to criticise you and then "socking them back when they do" is a great strategy

 

[Trollhole]

Gee I dunno, how many miles do YOU expect me to get out of this motor? You want to start up a betting pool or something?

You asked a question I answered it. How could I tell YOU were being a smart ass?

THole wrote-

"Funky assed engine rebuild with 100 over pistons and 30 over crank and homemade rod bolts will not equal anything over 10,000 miles in my book".

Ok, first of all my earlier post referencing "100" over pistons is the same as .040 over but measured in mm (metric system), verstehen dumkoff ??? Gee I´m glad we could clear that up, but seems I have done something terribly wrong in haviing my crank ground .040 under? BTW, pistons are over, bearings are over, crankshafts are ground UNDER, not ground over. But more importantly, seems you are somewhow privy to some little known information that dictates that it is a mistake to use .040 bearings on a crankshaft? Wow, that I´m sure will come as news to many so please dont delay in enlightening us all as to the arcane details of this wisdom you hold. You see I´m a humanitarian and dont want others to suffer the same error as myself. Quickly now, time is of the essence!

More arcane wisdom from THole

"But if you drive it like a tractor motor would (less than 20 mph) it may last you a lifetime". I have no idea.

My god, with literary skills like that you should be writting ad copy! Or at least have your own radio show like "click and clack" . Ok then, I will take your advice and drive my rig "like a tractor motor would" ... yes indeed.


On a slightly more serious note, those friken rod bolts some of you are deriding, I had those custom machined from grade 10.9 bolts and I would bet money they are significantly stronger than the originals. They have the same head shape, shoulder and thread configuration exactly and were weighed to within a gram of the originals, so PEESAuwwf!

More advice-
Just make sure if you sell it you let the prospect know what you did with the engine................

Yes sir, I´ll tell them I rebuilt it and show them the receipts, thanks.

TaTa
Mark

You dragged a motor out of the jungle.
The crank pulley basically fell off
You broke connecting rod bolts taking them off
You say the mechanics down there don't know what they are doing
Your say your gonna sell it to buy another cruiser
You plan on telling them it's rebuilt, show the receipts and not any of the above.

That's a great way to make friends.

One question.

Your British aren't you?

 

[Radish150]

Dear Troll, Brittish ? Thats pretty funny, why becuase I used a couple of German words in my last email? Or becuase I wrote an email in a style that did not appear to have been written by a character from "Deliverance" (thats an old moive btw)? I´m from Seattle Washington.


Oh well I´ve gone this far.

Troll wrote-

You dragged a motor out of the jungle.

To be specific, I DROVE a 67 Landcruiser out of someones back yard, actually it ran pretty good too and drove it that way for a few months. The only reason I rebuilt it was becuase the oil pressure was too low and out of my comfort zone. I think your refering to a post about an abandoned slant six.

The crank pulley basically fell off

Not exactly but I was surprised that it came off by hand, though with some effort. I just had never seen a pulley without a bolt on it like that so I may have exagerated a bit on how easy it came off. Upon reassembly I used green locktite as per a helpfull mud user and guess what? It´s still there! But tell me, how long do you think I have till it flies through my radiator like like it was thrown from an an olympian discus thrower? Cuz really, I grabbed it recently and tried hard to wiggle it to see if the locktite bond had been broken and I couldnt budge it. Dunno Troll, maybe I will someday be proved to be wrong on this, and if so I will let you all know, but I´m really not concerned about the pulley.

You broke connecting rod bolts taking them off

4... but so the hell what, they were obviously put on too tight, the others were not, and now they are torqued correctly. The fact that they broke comming off really is of no importance, I´m sure them being over tourqued did not damage the rod or crank so the only problem is the possible questionability of the replacements which you did not seem to focus on. So just briefly they are grade 10.9 bolts put on a lathe and machined to be a mirror image of the originals, what´s the problem? Just the IDEA that bothers you??? *SNORT* !!!

You say the mechanics down there don't know what they are doing

Well, the machine shop people is what we are talking about here, not mechanics. This particular machine shop does all the motors for the commercial shipping companies that navigate the Amazon. Were talking large and very expensive modern deisel engines. You think the owners of these ships would take thier buisness to this shop if the shop went around screwing up motors? Also, do you think this shop would go around screwing up the motors of mafia ship owners? These guys knew what they are doing. I demanded that they demonstrate all possible measurements with mics and plastigauge against factory recomended specifications and personaly verified with my own eyes that the measurements were, each one, just a hair over the minimum allowed tolerances. This mind you, on a complex line bore job that shops in the states dont even like to do. As far as mechanics go, yah they are sloppy, but the mechanics did not assemble this engine... I did. I have owned about 300 cars in my life and know how to assemble an engine. Do you? Tell me honestly how many engines you have yourself assembled in your lifetime? My grandfather was a master heavy equipment mechanic that had in his head every single part number that comprised a D8 catapillar and it was my good fortune to learn quite a bit from him, helping me on everything from bicycles on up to motorcycles, cars and boats. Really, Troll, I think your mostly mouth Sir and I´m rather annoyed at myself for allowing you to put me in a position where I felt the need to defend myself on this subject. At any rate, I think it´s quite clear that you had it right when you finished your previous post and said,

"I have no idea".






Methinks you like "heated discussions" and consider the usual stuff to be boring Radish.

I would think you'd be a good man to enjoy a technical discussion with over a few beers. (- But you're a bit far away for me to find out.)

You add a bit of "colour" to the forum (and Marshall/Trollhole would have to appreciate that).



Enticing people to criticise you and then "socking them back when they do" is a great strategy


Hey Marbles, well I guess that´s what they call "trolling" or "flame bait". Honestly if I´m doing that it´s not conciously, I´m just being forthright about things though albiet in a somewhat self deprecatory manner which tends to bring some types out of the woodwork. I guess I´m a little touchy when the haughtiness of some of the "high roller" types that lies just beneath the surface comes for a nip at the "make do" types when they sense weakness. Sure it´s fun to try and give them a bob in the head with a verbal crescent wrench!

Ok, nothing personal people, carry on... my funky assed engine is running like a top and think it will continue to do so for quite some time, how long exactly... go ask a gypsy fortune teller or something.