Full hydro (1 Viewer)

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If it were me, I'd most definitely go with a double ended ram on a full hydraulic system. Not to say a single ended ram wouldn't work well, it just seems to me that a double ended ram is best for full hydro. Using a double ended ram, and mounting it as in the photos posted. You would have better leverage on the knuckles from the ram. Therefore it would benefit the strength of the steering, getting the most power should be the biggest point here in my mind. I think also that it would have a better tendency to return to center as Mookie pointed out. I know that I wouldn't want my steering to not return to center on it's own, be slow, and sloppy, especially at high speed. And even more so if your hauling ass off road, as quick reaction time is critical. You never know what could lie just ahead in the dirt, until your right on top of it.

I'd think that in a "desert racer" rig, hydro assist might be better? As I would assume it would return to center itself better than a total hydraulic setup. I don't know what is used most in a "desert racer" application. I do know that in most race cars a manual steering system is used. As at high speeds excess power isn't needed to steer. A mechanical steering box offers the best response from the steering wheel and feel from the road. I know were talking off road, but speed is speed, and control is key. If I were building such a rig, my biggest concern would be responsiveness. But also the feedback to the steering wheel from the road. You'd want your steering strong so when you hit something hard, those forces aren't transfered into your hands through the steering wheel. I know that you can break fingers when that wheel gets ripped around, and also possibly cause you to lose control. I've learned from all my research on this subject, the valving is the most critical aspect relating to the steering performance with a full hydro system. If you get it right it could be ideal?

It sounds to me that the questioner here is most concerned with high speed off-roading. I would think that a full hydraulic system is better suited for crawling. Slow speeds, huge tires, lockers, and tight spots where the power is really needed to turn.

Sorry, here is another long ass response from me!!!
 
i am running HA on an 80 series box and pump. so far it works well, i added an additional finned cooler to the setup.

can you share with us the piston size that are you using .. ?

And about the speed all is in the pump and oil .. if you have the right pump that flows what do you need and you will be able to keep your hydraulic fluid cool .. sure you will enjoy a great full hydro or assist setup.
 
can you share with us the piston size that are you using .. ?

And about the speed all is in the pump and oil .. if you have the right pump that flows what do you need and you will be able to keep your hydraulic fluid cool .. sure you will enjoy a great full hydro or assist setup.

I am using an 1.5" bore with 8" ram that I picked up from Trailgear (if I remember correctly). I am running a Slee Hi-Steer kit and the ram pushing off of the drag link. install was easy with the help of a friend. I had West Texas offroad rebuild and tap my steering box making it a "Redneck Ram"(the did an AMAZING job).

I don't notice any real difference driving on the streets and highways, but a world of a difference when I am trying to turn my 40" rubber at a stand still and in the rocks.

You do have to be aware of where your tires are lodged when crawling b/c the ram will keep pushing and if you're up against a large rock and that ram will try and move it.

I've never drive a full hydro rig and was very hesitant to do the HA on my rig, but with big rubber (anything 37" and over) I'd say it is truly a no brainer and makes those tires truly effective on the trail.
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Thanks Sam ... I'm suprised that you are still using and happy with good results the factory Toyota PS pump .. and getting enough flow to run the piston . .. maybe are just the PS on 80 series better than my old and tired 60 series pump ( which aren't a surprise ).

Actually in my 80 I'm running a but coolerfor the PS and I'm only with 315"
 
If it were me, I'd most definitely go with a double ended ram on a full hydraulic system. Not to say a single ended ram wouldn't work well, it just seems to me that a double ended ram is best for full hydro. Using a double ended ram, and mounting it as in the photos posted. You would have better leverage on the knuckles from the ram. Therefore it would benefit the strength of the steering, getting the most power should be the biggest point here in my mind. I think also that it would have a better tendency to return to center as Mookie pointed out. I know that I wouldn't want my steering to not return to center on it's own, be slow, and sloppy, especially at high speed. And even more so if your hauling ass off road, as quick reaction time is critical. You never know what could lie just ahead in the dirt, until your right on top of it.

I'd think that in a "desert racer" rig, hydro assist might be better? As I would assume it would return to center itself better than a total hydraulic setup. I don't know what is used most in a "desert racer" application. I do know that in most race cars a manual steering system is used. As at high speeds excess power isn't needed to steer. A mechanical steering box offers the best response from the steering wheel and feel from the road. I know were talking off road, but speed is speed, and control is key. If I were building such a rig, my biggest concern would be responsiveness. But also the feedback to the steering wheel from the road. You'd want your steering strong so when you hit something hard, those forces aren't transfered into your hands through the steering wheel. I know that you can break fingers when that wheel gets ripped around, and also possibly cause you to lose control. I've learned from all my research on this subject, the valving is the most critical aspect relating to the steering performance with a full hydro system. If you get it right it could be ideal?

It sounds to me that the questioner here is most concerned with high speed off-roading. I would think that a full hydraulic system is better suited for crawling. Slow speeds, huge tires, lockers, and tight spots where the power is really needed to turn.

Sorry, here is another long ass response from me!!!



Have you ever driven a truck with full-hydro?
 
yeah i agree that the speed of turning is all in the valve.....but i think the double ended one has a couple of features that makes it friendlier for higher speed/street driving- a return to center feel that you don't get with the single ended ram and has the same number of steering wheel turns for full right and full left

Nope, what you are referring to a a load reactive vs a non load reactive orbital (steering box) a non load reactive box ( what you have) will work perfectly fine on a double ended ram. And, will behave just as it does with a single ended ram.
A load reactive orbital is one of the "return to center" rams (although that facet of turning is based on caster more than anything else). And works best with a double ended ram. Although I know of a couple of people that run load reactive boxes on single ended rams with success. It should not work, but does for some reason.

it aint the ram, it's the box..

Bending rams kinda sux...

Yep..

ill give hydro assist a go, but i fear its going to respond a bit too slow.

I drive fast alot of the time

As sixty said, fast does not knock out hydro assist.

i welded the mount for the stationary end of my ram to the top of the chunk and the other end to the back of the tie-bar (i have hi steer)....if you do it make sure the ram is the same distance from the tie-bar on both ends, i screwed that up the first time.....also my single ended ram full-hydro sucks at high speed, it feels completely uncontrolable over about 35 mph it turns the wheels so fast

You have a poorly designed system then..

it turns SO fast that if i get going too fast on dirt it's really hard not to overcompensate and start fishtailing....i think that part of it is that my orbital valve flows at a higher rate or volume or whatever than would be ideal.....i have heard that double ended rams are much more street friendly

Yep, your orbital flows too much for the size of your ram. Increase the diameter of the ram and it'll be better.

If it were me, I'd most definitely go with a double ended ram on a full hydraulic system. Not to say a single ended ram wouldn't work well, it just seems to me that a double ended ram is best for full hydro. Using a double ended ram, and mounting it as in the photos posted. You would have better leverage on the knuckles from the ram. Therefore it would benefit the strength of the steering, getting the most power should be the biggest point here in my mind. I think also that it would have a better tendency to return to center as Mookie pointed out. I know that I wouldn't want my steering to not return to center on it's own, be slow, and sloppy, especially at high speed. And even more so if your hauling ass off road, as quick reaction time is critical. You never know what could lie just ahead in the dirt, until your right on top of it.

I'd think that in a "desert racer" rig, hydro assist might be better? As I would assume it would return to center itself better than a total hydraulic setup. I don't know what is used most in a "desert racer" application. I do know that in most race cars a manual steering system is used. As at high speeds excess power isn't needed to steer. A mechanical steering box offers the best response from the steering wheel and feel from the road. I know were talking off road, but speed is speed, and control is key. If I were building such a rig, my biggest concern would be responsiveness. But also the feedback to the steering wheel from the road. You'd want your steering strong so when you hit something hard, those forces aren't transfered into your hands through the steering wheel. I know that you can break fingers when that wheel gets ripped around, and also possibly cause you to lose control. I've learned from all my research on this subject, the valving is the most critical aspect relating to the steering performance with a full hydro system. If you get it right it could be ideal?

It sounds to me that the questioner here is most concerned with high speed off-roading. I would think that a full hydraulic system is better suited for crawling. Slow speeds, huge tires, lockers, and tight spots where the power is really needed to turn.

Sorry, here is another long ass response from me!!!

Desert racers use hydro assist or rack n pinion. Although the new KOH class racers use both HA and FH. Lots of options out there. Having a properly set up system is the most important thing..


Thanks Sam ... I'm suprised that you are still using and happy with good results the factory Toyota PS pump .. and getting enough flow to run the piston . .. maybe are just the PS on 80 series better than my old and tired 60 series pump ( which aren't a surprise ).

Actually in my 80 I'm running a but coolerfor the PS and I'm only with 315"

60 pumps and 80 pumps are effectively the same.
 
it's even more fun when your right on the edge of disaster all the time......i didn't say i don't do it lol.....i passed everbody in my group when we ran poisen spider mesa- most fun i had on the whole trip
 
Have you ever driven a truck with full-hydro?

I have a couple of times. Both times were the same rig owned by a guy I used to work with. It was a cruiser on 38.5 swampers. I remember thinking that the steering was totally useless without the engine running. Going 35mph on dirt roads in it, felt weird or different, but not necessarily unsafe . Don't know the best way to explain it, I guess in the past I would have said "slow" or "delayed". It just didn't have the feel in the steering wheel that anything with a mechanical steering box does. I remember not really having the same sense of the road conditions, or what the tires were doing, compared to what I was used to. It was a while back now, it may have been set up poorly, does seem like it was a double ended ram.
 
60 pumps and 80 pumps are effectively the same.

probably .. even if the pump in my 2H it's in the weird location can be located .. thought maybe was just my old 2H PS pump shot ...
 

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