Front wheel bearings --- A few questions (1 Viewer)

[fatrap]

Getting ready to replace front brake and rotors, gonna replace wheel bearings while I have them off. No evidence they are worn but bearing will eventually wear so I'm replacing them.

Questions:

(1) I read a few places here that the manual is wrong about torque on the wheel bearing nuts. Folks are claiming 30 inner 45 lock. Does anyone have knowledge that the manual is wrong, and if where did the other specs 30/45 come from? Usually these require several steps --- tighten, loosen, tighten but not as much. "Don't use the fish scale" someone says. Why not? I'm hoping for verified info here, not "Well this is what I did!"

(2) Anyone use Timken or National grease seals for the front wheels? Are they OK?

Thanks!

 

[Wyatt Pine]

I have had good luck with both methods. I will say when using the fish scale method I had to go back after ~25 miles of driving and tighten them up again. Landtank's method is also good. I have used timken seals. not as good as OEM but will work for a while

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Im from the fish scale are for fish due too many variables.

Me -
1 - •Tighten ~40lbs
2 - • Turn wheel 2 right 2 left
3 - • Loosen
4 - • Torque to 28lbs
5 - • Repeat 2 & 4
6 - • Repeat 2 & 4

 

[fatrap]

Im from the fish scale are for fish due too many variables.

Me -
1 - •Tighten ~40lbs
2 - • Turn wheel 2 right 2 left
3 - • Loosen
4 - • Torque to 28lbs
5 - • Repeat 2 & 4
6 - • Repeat 2 & 4

So where did you get those torque numbers?

 

[rolliges]

Experience

 

[Heckraiser]

Getting ready to replace front brake and rotors, gonna replace wheel bearings while I have them off. No evidence they are worn but bearing will eventually wear so I'm replacing them.

Questions:

(1) I read a few places here that the manual is wrong about torque on the wheel bearing nuts. Folks are claiming 30 inner 45 lock. Does anyone have knowledge that the manual is wrong, and if where did the other specs 30/45 come from? Usually these require several steps --- tighten, loosen, tighten but not as much. "Don't use the fish scale" someone says. Why not? I'm hoping for verified info here, not "Well this is what I did!"

(2) Anyone use Timken or National grease seals for the front wheels? Are they OK?

Thanks!

If you're looking for a TSB or something along those lines, you wont find it. You read the various methods (25/45, 30/45) on the forum because they work for folks. A lot of us have had experience with the wheel bearings loosening up after some miles using the factory method. These alternatives are not "official" or gospel, they just work for many of us. I did the 28/45 method the last time mine loosened up after doing the FSM procedure. Holding strong about 10k miles later.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

So where did you get those torque numbers?

My experience

Many successfully run between 25-30
More important for longevity is step 5 & 6

 

[fatrap]

My experience

Many successfully run between 25-30
More import for longevity is step 5 & 6

So your 28 lbs is for the bearing (inner) nut. Do you put the locking nut to a spec? Or just snug it up and crown it?

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

So your 28 lbs is for the bearing (inner) nut. Do you put the locking nut to a spec? Or just snug it up and crown it?

No lock nut for me I run a Chromoly spindle nut kit by Trail Gear.

 

[rolliges]

Others set the lock nut torque higher.

This is well discussed and worth a search.

 

[fatrap]

Others set the lock nut torque higher.

This is well discussed and worth a search.

I've already researched here and other places. I was just asking Phil for clarification on his method.

 

[BILT4ME]

The FSM states fish scale and I believe 30 INCH POUNDS ( not foot pounds), unless you have an Australia manual.
The outer nut is listed to tighten to 45 FOOT-POUNDS.

The fish-scale thing does NOT work.

I went full anal the first time I rebuilt my front axle and followed the FSM to a tee. Then I went back and retorqued front wheel bearings 5 times until they finally hold now.

It's the torque on the inner one that is the problem.

I torque mine to 35 Lb-Ft. I also have switched to the Trail Gear single Lock nut (not sure it was worth it or not.....)

Actually, I follow the one from @Tools R Us (RIP). He's the one that helped get me in the right place.

 

[Broski]

I agree, Fish scale thing is for fish. If any one insists on using the fish scale the can have mine, I don't fish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TNOverlander]

25-30 ft lbs; do it the way Phil said and roll on. Way too many posts on mud about people having to re-torque after the fish scales.

 

[flintknapper]

25-30 ft lbs; do it the way Phil said and roll on. Way too many posts on mud about people having to re-torque after the fish scales.

I don't even bother torquing them, I snug them down good and tight then spin the wheel a few revolutions to disperse the grease, back off of it, tighten it again until I feel a little resistance rotating the wheel and then sock down the lock nut. Drive for a few miles and check for looseness...if none...then you are probably good to go.

You don't want too much preload or your bearings/hubs will run hot and there will be increased wear on the bearings. Too little will produce slop...but honestly..there is a large window of 'OK' between those two extremes. If you take your LC in to an 'indy' to have this done...almost none of them are going to torque anything. They are going to go by 'feel'.

 

[Rifleman]

So where did you get those torque numbers?

Below are two threads that may explain how a very knowledgeable Mud member, Tools R Us came up with those numbers.

Help needed setting front wheel bearing preload

I buttoned up one side at midnight, left it at around 12 lbs preload on the fish scale. After redoing the preload four times each side I got worn out, got to get this back on the road. I'll try to recheck it soon.

forum.ih8mud.com

Fixing Front Wheel Bearing Preload

Hey Team, I did my front birf's a couple weeks back, and put the truck on stands this weekend to check for play in the front wheel bearings. With both front wheels still on, and using their weight to try and rock the front hubs on the spindle (not being crazy forceful, but trying to get some...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[1973Guppie]

don't overthink it, just do the 30/45

 

[Heckraiser]

You don't want too much preload or your bearings/hubs will run hot and there will be increased wear on the bearings. Too little will produce slop...but honestly..there is a large window of 'OK' between those two extremes. If you take your LC in to an 'indy' to have this done...almost none of them are going to torque anything. They are going to go by 'feel'.

True. There are a lot of old-timers and mechanics out there who can tell what's good by hand. In fact, if you youtube wheel bearing videos, there are some of them on the web. Tight, spins with a little bit of resistance. Done.

 

[Broski]

True. There are a lot of old-timers and mechanics out there who can tell what's good by hand. In fact, if you youtube wheel bearing videos, there are some of them on the web. Tight, spins with a little bit of resistance. Done.

This is how I have been doing it for decades.

 

[ZackR]

I don't even bother torquing them, I snug them down good and tight then spin the wheel a few revolutions to disperse the grease, back off of it, tighten it again until I feel a little resistance rotating the wheel and then sock down the lock nut. Drive for a few miles and check for looseness...if none...then you are probably good to go.

You don't want too much preload or your bearings/hubs will run hot and there will be increased wear on the bearings. Too little will produce slop...but honestly..there is a large window of 'OK' between those two extremes. If you take your LC in to an 'indy' to have this done...almost none of them are going to torque anything. They are going to go by 'feel'.

Doing it by feel works well if you are familiar with bearings and have done them before. The torque numbers are helpful for new folks to learn what it should feel like.