Front Differential/CV Failure Dilemma. (1 Viewer)

[brauski]

Hey dudes, have a sad one today. I'm in quite a pickle here, looking for advice/stories about experiences yall have had like this. Everything helps.

TL;DR: My front diff grenaded on a road trip, shop that installed CVs just prior is saying it isn't their fault, and that it'll be $4k to replace with a new entire front diff.

Got the steering rack redone end of March. Along with it, I had a local reputable Euro shop that's getting into Japanese cars install two OEM 02 toyota CVs (I have an 02 LX). Picked them up from a toyota dealer with a Black Friday deal. Handed them the parts, asked them to install. They said they wouldn't warranty the parts as they didn't buy them. I say ok, cause they're OEM I got from a dealer. Everything was great for about 2 weeks. Then I noticed this one day before a ski trip to some slopes about 2 hrs away.

Mistake one was not verifying what the fluid was. I couldn't really tell any color, and it was quite recent. The radiator hose had a slight bead of water from it weeping. I figured it was coolant, and checked the resevoir. It was pretty low, so I assumed that's what it was and topped it off. Checked every other fluid under the hood and filled appropriately. Nothing to report, rest were about where they needed to be. I go on the trip assuming I'm good, bringing with me all the extra fluids to top off. On the way down the mountain the front diff overheats and destroys itself. Have it towed back to shop.

I ask them what they find and get "There isn't an an apparent hole in the diff. We are not sure where the fluid went, but the diff is bad." I ask about the seals, they say "Seals look great as well as the CVs". They claim they filled it back up with oil, I'd agree with them based on the picture lol. Analyzing the photo now, months later, it's clear that it was slowly leaking, as there appears to be atleast 4 different puddles on the driveway, most likely from my slightly different parking each day.

It proceeds to basically sit for months due to bad communication. I was patient with them as I was sure they would warranty it, they seem like a solid reputable shop, and I was getting pissed about the whole thing so I was giving them their space and time.

I have them look at it again today. Owner of the shop calls, and long story short, says the outside of the diff is fine, the right inner CV boot has some damage, and that the ring gear is pretty "crunchy". They assert that the seals are fine, and that they believe either the CV was defective or was not the proper part number. He begins to say that it's pretty heavily modified and he thinks my AHC lift may have been causal. I tell him I strongly disagree with that. When I ask him about the boot rupture, he admits that oil should not leak thru there. So we have no idea why it leaked all the gear oil out. I requested pictures to document all the damage.

This is where it gets s***ty. Not only did I purge my old emails awhile back and no longer have the receipt, I gave them the boxes from the dealership unopened. I'm currently attempting to hit up the dealership hoping they still have the records on their system, but since I didn't open the parts when they arrived, I can't verify that they actually sent me what I ordered. I asked and of course they didn't record the part numbers off them when they installed them. Lots of lessons learend here.

This is what I get for not doing the work myself. I'm moving in a month and a half, and am going to be gone for work like 2 weeks of it.

Questions:
1. Has any one else had a similar experience, and how did you proceed?
2. Are their known incompatible parts that appear to fit at first?
3. What's the most common way for the fluid to leak out like that if it's not a bad seal?
4. Are there any not obviously broken parts that are now higher risk to fail in the future due to the overheating that I should repalce too?
5. Any advice with working with dealers for warranty returns if I go that route, or with the shop?
6. Is it too much strain on the rig to daily the thing (around town) in the meantime with center locked with the front driveline disconnected?
7. Should I take the rig back and fix it myself?
8. Would you get a new/reman/used/or upgrade gears and lockers? I'm heavily against that new price tag of $4k.

Thanks for your time.

 

[richg]

I haven't had to R&R axles on my 100 yet, but if they didn't seat the axles properly into the diff on re-install, fluid will leak out past the seals.

 

[abuck99]

1. No
2. Very unlikely
3. Not installing new diff seals- will leak, installing non- OEM seals- will leak, re-using and not replacing drain crush washer - will leak(maybe not enough to drain diff right away)
4. Not really- retrieve your truck bring it home and remove the diff and inspect. The shop is not helping you.
5. Toyota CV has a 1yr warranty - but I doubt it’s defective if oil is on it it’s prob from the diff. Cv grease is light tan peanut butter consistency.
6. You can remove the drive flanges and the front drive shaft but it’s not a good solution to daily it- park it.
7. Yes
8. Your $5k~$6k for front and rear gears, install kits, front and rear lockers, compressor and gear set up- not incl labor for removal and install into your truck. ( you can do it)

Call East Coast Gear in Raleigh they have built diffs in stock with what ever set up you want- Eaton, Arb, stock gears 4.56, 4.88’s what ever you want- they send you a complete diff(s) they’ll send a call tag and you’ll send them your core(s).

I don’t know what year your truck is but if it’s 03-07 I have a set of take off 4.10 gears.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

Would you get a new/reman/used/or upgrade gears and lockers? I'm heavily against that new price tag of $4k.

I agree with @abuck99 on everything above except this. Just buy a good used 4.30 front diff (98-02 model years all have 4.30) from a junkyard for $500.

 

[diego355]

I can be 99.9% sure that one of the CV's wasn't all the way in seated properly and that's how fluid leaked

 

[graveling]

I have a gen 1 tundra with the same type of CV setup. When the dealer recalled the frame, they trashed the seals putting the axles back in. I had almost 200k on the vehicle, so I'm not surprised the seals would be at issue. If I didn't do me own wrenching, I wouldn't have made a meticulous inspection afterwards and ID the issue (+ half dozen more). Unfortunately there is a lot of dodgy work out there. I've found quite a few hack fixes on my cruiser as well. At this point, the best solution is to go the used diff route.

 

[Patassa]

I'd bet they screwed up the seals, it's easy to do if you aren't being careful. Most shops are T&M, so very little incentive to go slowly and carefully. Seems like a used front diff would quickly and cheaply get you back in business. Pull the drain plug, check for no chunks on the magnet, refill, rock and roll.

 

[brauski]

Thanks guys, the shop owner had me half wondering if I was retarded.

I think what pisses me off the most is that I acutally believed these were good people. The mistake I understand, I wrench on rigs. s*** happens. But they have insurance. The fact that they can't admit that it's an install issue and cover it, and are falling back on the "well we said we wouldn't warranty the parts" infuriates me.

1. No
2. Very unlikely
3. Not installing new diff seals- will leak, installing non- OEM seals- will leak, re-using and not replacing drain crush washer - will leak(maybe not enough to drain diff right away)
4. Not really- retrieve your truck bring it home and remove the diff and inspect. The shop is not helping you.
5. Toyota CV has a 1yr warranty - but I doubt it’s defective if oil is on it it’s prob from the diff. Cv grease is light tan peanut butter consistency.
6. You can remove the drive flanges and the front drive shaft but it’s not a good solution to daily it- park it.
7. Yes
8. Your $5k~$6k for front and rear gears, install kits, front and rear lockers, compressor and gear set up- not incl labor for removal and install into your truck. ( you can do it)

Call East Coast Gear in Raleigh they have built diffs in stock with what ever set up you want- Eaton, Arb, stock gears 4.56, 4.88’s what ever you want- they send you a complete diff(s) they’ll send a call tag and you’ll send them your core(s).

I don’t know what year your truck is but if it’s 03-07 I have a set of take off 4.10 gears.

Thanks. I'll file this in the long term plan, I gotta move to a different continent in a month so I'm really tryna save cash right now.

I agree with @abuck99 on everything above except this. Just buy a good used 4.30 front diff (98-02 model years all have 4.30) from a junkyard for $500.

Good call. Sounds like pre-covid pricing, but I'll see what I can do. Best I've seen so far is around $800 - not bad.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

Good call. Sounds like pre-covid pricing, but I'll see what I can do. Best I've seen so far is around $800 - not bad.

Check the Part Out and Classifieds sections here on MUD, and also car-part.com. Would be worth asking @LC Parts Yard if he has any, too.

 

[abuck99]

Cruiser outfitters may have something as well.

 

[TexLexican]

I'd bet they screwed up the seals, it's easy to do if you aren't being careful. Most shops are T&M, so very little incentive to go slowly and carefully. Seems like a used front diff would quickly and cheaply get you back in business. Pull the drain plug, check for no chunks on the magnet, refill, rock and roll.

How likely is it to push the seal further in while installing the CV? I thought some force was required?

 

[AlpineAccess]

Just get a used diff, install new axle seals and reuse the CVs. Fill it up with gear oil and rock and roll. Good time to refresh the diff bushings.

 

[Patassa]

How likely is it to push the seal further in while installing the CV? I thought some force was required?

Could be fairly easy because it also takes some force to pop the CVs in.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

How likely is it to push the seal further in while installing the CV? I thought some force was required?

Unlikely. The inner shaft can only go in so far and that’s not far enough to push the seal further in. But you most certainly can damage the inner lip of the seal when installing a new CV axle, which will result in leaks.

 

[brauski]

Was on a work trip for a month. Just got back and called the shop to pick up the truck so I could do the front diff swap in the driveway.

Owner of the shop proceeds to tell me that 'the wildest thing happened. When they put it back together and tried to get it out of the shop it seemed like it was stuck in neutral and wouldn't go into gear. So what we're thinking is that it hasnt been 4wd for awhile and was stuck in front wheel drive mode and that extra stress caused the diff to die'

Does he think Im dumb? Which brings me to another smoking crack check. Unless they left of the front driveshaft off and didn't engage the center lock (which I'm gonna verify) that'd completely and utterly impossible, right? Jesus this is such a nightmare.

 

[Patassa]

Was on a work trip for a month. Just got back and called the shop to pick up the truck so I could do the front diff swap in the driveway.

Owner of the shop proceeds to tell me that 'the wildest thing happened. When they put it back together and tried to get it out of the shop it seemed like it was stuck in neutral and wouldn't go into gear. So what we're thinking is that it hasnt been 4wd for awhile and was stuck in front wheel drive mode and that extra stress caused the diff to die'

Does he think Im dumb? Which brings me to another smoking crack check. Unless they left of the front driveshaft off and didn't engage the center lock (which I'm gonna verify) that'd completely and utterly impossible, right? Jesus this is such a nightmare.

I can't even make sense of what he was trying to say unless the high to low range selector was in neutral and he doesn't realize the LC is always in 4wd.

 

[Patassa]

Unlikely. The inner shaft can only go in so far and that’s not far enough to push the seal further in. But you most certainly can damage the inner lip of the seal when installing a new CV axle, which will result in leaks.

Yeah you're probably right, even at some extreme angle, would probably only tear the seal, not push it in further.