Front Clip Fitment - Let it ride? (1 Viewer)

Joined
Nov 29, 2020
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146
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Wausau WI
Been working on getting all the various bits and bobs aligned before welding up my tub to the firewall. The tub is aftermarket (CCOT) and the fenders are also aftermarket (CCOT/Taiwan), so they're not OEM perfect. The only quirk I have left is that the bib is sitting about 1/2" higher than normal from the front frame.

The tub seems to be sitting pretty straight at this point, with all the body mounts and rear bumper alignment looking ok. The firewall to tub looks good, with even door seams and the body seam where they meet looking ok, as well as the windshield fitment looking ok. I do have the thicker body mounts on the firewall outriggers as well (vs the standard sizes used elsewhere). Running boards sit ok, although I don't have an OEM dimension for it's spacer/mount as mine were lonnnng gone...but they ride straight down the rocker and meet the fender as they should.

After much finagling and adjustment, the front clip all looks good as far as body lines go - the aprons run straight down the hood in both dimensions (laterally and vertically), and the bib also sits nicely at the front both fore/aft and left/right. The only oddball thing I've got at this point is that the bib sits about 1/2" high from the frame, so the hinge would need a spacer block.

In theory, you could lift the rear of the tub about 1/2", but then some of the body mount gaps would be off under the tub, and the rear bumper gap would be large as well. My $0.02 is to let things ride and just use a thicker shim/spacer under the hinge...in terms of battles to fight, that seems like the one given all the other areas look good and it's the least noticeable and simplest to adjust out.

Anything I might be missing there otherwise before I send the firewall/tub joint home with the welder?

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Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
667
Location
Houston, TX
I feel if you cinch down the front body mounts under the cowl, they should line up better. Now is the time to make it perfect cause once paint is done you’re kinda stuck with what you have. I spent hours making sure mine would be perfect, and as I assembled after paint, everything lined up perfectly.

And as a side note, I don’t have a single shim anywhere for panel alignment. In other words it can be done it’s just a giant PITA.
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Messages
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Wausau WI
Front body mounts are tight, but will see if there's any wiggle there. (They're the SOR poly blocks.)

How much of your rig was OEM vs replacement? I'm fighting a bit there as well - rear frame rails were redone(this was the second time, too), tub is new, fenders are imports, etc...
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2005
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Southern Colorado
Your fit looks excellent, and I fear that if you did NOT run a spacer block under the bib hinge, you would be inviting many hours of continued work to get the body to fit well without a spacer.

Having said that, have you studied the 'next body mount back' from the too-high bib hinge area, to see if you can lower the entire front end back to the firewall? Can you unbolt and slide the fenders down near the shock tower to lower the whole front clip? (I doubt so, but I thought I'd ask).

I would be triple-sure ALL your doors and the hard top fit nicely and operate properly, since that will annoy you (down the road) likely more than anything else. I agree with Jetlander that it must be perfect before painting, as any adjustments afterward will be ugly and risk paint damage.

Steve
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Messages
146
Location
Wausau WI
Agree 1000000000% on getting everything fitting (as best it can) before paint...paint is all in the prepwork, and redos are much less than fun.

Did some more rolling around on the creeper and checking measurements. It's very odd - no clue how it's sitting like it is, given everything else seems pretty on par. From the rear up to the firewall, all the body mounts are sitting well, except for one in the middle near the b-pillar that's too low to slide mount in. I'm 99% sure that's just another issue in the CCOT/HFS tub though, considering all the others are in line. I don't see any wiggle room in the mounts themselves, they're snug...so doesn't seem like that's the issue offhand either.

I can't say for sure how it's supposed to sit, but the tub is parallel with the flat run of frame by the trans, and the firewall is 90* perpendicular to that (within reason). Shooting down the apron using the firewall as a reference shows the apron sitting "correct" to the firewall as well.

It seems like:
  • The tub is generally sitting ok on the frame, as the body mounts seem fairly close other than the one oddball pair at the b-pillar. That somewhat looks like it just needed a flat-plate mount there instead of bent...but my OEM tub was toast there so no reference point
  • The firewall is mating up to the tub ok - angles show perpendicular, and the doors sit ok in the openings
  • The clip is aligned to the firewall given hood lines and apron lines are nice, and the laser sight tracks good as well
In terms of places to finagle:
  • I could lift the rear tub up a bit, but it would roughly need to be 1/2" based on basic geometry...so the rear two body mounts and the rear bumper gap would have excess
  • I could adjust the firewall to tub mating...but that would throw off door fitment and the body seam there
  • I could adjust the front fenders and apron lower (as that's all moveable, there's no "body mounts" ahead of the firewall), but then the hood line and apron lines would be crooked to the firewall (essentially looking "saggy").
It's definitely "wrong" in some manner, somewhere...and I'm guessing it's somewhere in the tub, but I can't spot it particularly...and even if I did, I'm not yet sure what you'd do about it. There is a chance the rear bumper is low from being reworked twice, but it was in line with the old tub and it's sitting generally OK now as well.

Curious if the extra info triggers anything new with the crew here...as I'm still not seeing much jumping out to change just yet.

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Joined
Dec 13, 2012
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Location
KY
Looking at your B pillar picture it is hard to tell but is the frame mount riveted to the frame or bolted. If bolted it might have been placed to far up.
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Messages
146
Location
Wausau WI
Looking at your B pillar picture it is hard to tell but is the frame mount riveted to the frame or bolted. If bolted it might have been placed to far up.
I had to pop them off for some repairs when I had it down to the frame, but the reused the OEM holes to go back on. There's a chance they're a smidge off, but should be under 1/16 at the most.

Good eye though.
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
353
Location
Rossland BC
Interesting...mine still only had the OEM rag/canvas patch, which was only about 1/8".

yeah that’s the one, now I need to find mine, measure and install.

It’s in my shop hiding somewhere,
hmmm.... maybe i’ve been looking for the wrong thickness

good thing about looking for a random part amidst a sea of land cruiser parts is finding other random parts
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Messages
146
Location
Wausau WI
Argued, negotiated, persuaded, and wrangled the front clip some more today...improved it a twinge, but it inevitably ended up back about where I started, even after pulling the fenders off a couple times and tweaking and tuning.

Seems like it's the nature of the beast with this combination of frame/tub/mounts/fenders...could be worse. Bib sits both level and square, hood sits square...I don't think fighting it anymore will help, but at least a smallish spacer shouldn't be too noticeable. One of those things...
 

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