Frame repair or frame swap? (1 Viewer)

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Joined
Nov 22, 2009
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Location
Utrecht, Netherlands
I had my rig inspected by MarkW the other day and he directed me to take a closer look at the rear of my frame. Long story short, it became very clear that the guy I bought it from who did a "frame off" was clearly lying, or actually did and just didn't care enough to use a clean frame. So now I'm stuck with a dilemma. My 3B runs fantastic almost all of the time (and really only breaks when I start fixing something...) and the body has minimal rust and bondo. Figuring that I have zero welding skills or tools, no shop in the foreseeable future as I'm moving to Seattle, and as always, a limited budget to work with, what would you do? The pictures here show the worst of it at the spring hangers and back on both sides.

Of course, I'm asking this assuming I make the drive from Anchorage to Seattle without bending (or breaking!) the frame and that it's still repairable when I get there...
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That inner section is not really for support, it is more for attaching things such as brake lines etc...
My frame is much worse and I have been driving it for 9 years, although I cut out all the inside channel and welded on new plate...
As we speak though I am doing a full body and frame swap!
I would check the main c-channel on the outside especially near the spring hangers.
You will have to post more pics it is hard to tell how strong it is from that.
Or stop by on your way down through Vancouver B.C. and I or a number of guys could look at it.
I am no expert, just going from personal experience.
 
That inner section is not really for support, it is more for attaching things such as brake lines etc...

John, I hate to tell you but that is not correct. A boxed frame is considerably stronger than a frame that isn't. There is no reason to add that much steel just as an attachment place.

Leitrum I suspect that Mark may have said the frame is toast if that corrosion goes all the way through the inner steel of the frame. Hard to tell in the pics, is that just flaking of the coating or is it all the way through, once you get down to Seattle you may need to find a new frame and swap it out. A lot of work but worth the effort. Or get a rust free FJ 60 and swap out the diesel.

Tony
 
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Leitrum I suspect that Mark may have said the frame is toast if that corrosion goes all the way through the inner steel of the frame. Hard to tell in the pics, is that just flaking of the coating or is it all the way through, once you get down to Seattle you may need to find a new frame and swap it out. A lot of work but worth the effort. Or get a rust free FJ 60 and swap out the diesel.

Tony

Heh, first I should clarify that I just go by Leit, since I seem to be on here quite a bit now. :) And yes, that's more or less what Mark said. He felt that if I could make it to Seattle without damaging it further that it would be possible to fix, but he definitely suggested a frame swap as the better option. The problem I'll face is that's something I've never done and I certainly don't have the equipment to move big, heavy things like the body or engine around easily. There really needs to be some kind of co-op shop that people like me can work in...

How often do you see BJ60 frames around there? Or will I need to just have the 3B engine mounts welded on an FJ60 like was done with this one?

Edit:
I just went and looked at the photos and you're right, they aren't clear! The rust definitely goes through on the inside channels...And in more than just the usual locations per Mark.
 
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BJ60 were only available in Canada so not only are they that much less common but that much more rustier. Swapping an engine mount is no big deal nor would removing the body. Yes it is a big cumbersome job but not a complex one. Most things will bolt off in sections small enough to carry around yourself. The main body shell can be lifted with pulleys or even ratchet straps. The engine can be pulled quickly with the rental of a hoist.

If you were staying nearby me in Canada I'd even help you do it.

There should be frames around. I think I have one that is rust free with factory paint still on it from a HJ61. swap the motor mounts and you are golden.

Another thing you can do is have someone do it for you. This would be costly but the more you do yourself will drive the price down. Perhaps if you bring a new frame to a shop and your old one with the engine still on it maybe you can have them remove the engine, swap mounts and bolt the engine on for you. Then you get it back and bolt everything back on yourself. This way you won't need to weld and it should be fairly cost effective.
 
I've erased everything I had to say... and to put it simply:

1) You have neither knowledge nor equipment for a frame swap.
2) I doubt you can afford to pay someone to put in a new frame.
3) I would wheel up a mountain with a frame like that (it's not too bad)
4) Do what you can! Wire wheel that entire frame and re-paint it.
5) Make an inner channel rust removal tool (round stock with a bearing at the end that goes into a drill)
6) Trace the areas of the frame where the inner channel is gone, to make a 1/8 plate that fits perfectly.


Now not so simply: to fix the frame it is going to take you about 24 man hours. You need to remove all the body mounts and things in the way, jack up the body in the back, clean the frame up and weld the new plate in.



Recap: Good frame that needs some repair. Clean the frame inside and out then repaint it. Make a template for where inner channel is missing. Find a welder friend. Remove rear body mounts and jack body up. Totally remove inner channel where new plate is going. Weld. Paint. Put back together. Break.


-Turbodiesel69 (a young man on his third frame repair)
 
My frame was similar on my bj60. I faced the decision of patching frame or parting out the truck, so I got a mig welder and patched it to buy myself another few years before swapping bits into a clean FJ60.

Best would be to swap in a clean FJ60/62 frame when you move to Seattle, or ask for a quote to get Mark to do the job up there. It won't be an easy swap and it isn't quite a bolt on conversion, but that's the route I'd go if the mechanical portion of the truck is sound and you want to keep it long term.
 
Tony is right!
I guess I meant to say that the inner channel on these frames is not the same thickness as the main outside channel. So if the inner is rusted it does not mean the main frame is bad necessarily. Anyways I cut out the inside and welded in new plate. My frame was much worse than that from what I can see.
 
If the inner frame rail is that bad, double check the body mounts. The tops will rust out on those as well. Then you could be spending time and money fixing something that needs more and more work.

If you can swing it, do a frame swap. A lot more work, but you get to ready the frame 1st.

If you can't swing it, then do the inner frame patches and keep your eyes out for a frame in good shape. Save and budget. There are some great Cruiser heads in the Seattle area who you could connect with and then make a plan.

In either situation, when the work is done spray the inner rails and outer rails with rust prevention wax oils to hold it where it is.

gb
 
My last BJ60 was way rustier along the inner channel and my current one has a bit along the inner channel.

On my last one I cut out the bottom half of a lot of the inner channel and welded 1/4 plate in its place. My main concern is to disguise the patch work from the D.O.T......so do the best job you can!

I will be doing the same thing to my current 85 bj60 and I will then coat the frame with oil instead of paint because it will collect dust and whatnot and at a glance the patches won't be as visible. I know....dirty; but things don't rust when coated in oil. It seems to be the only way I can keep the rust under control on these things.
 
snag that frame that is for sale
stick your drivetrain in and done.

i am one of those that don't agree with "fixing a frame" in that shape. i respect Mark as a knowledgable cruiserhead and when he says "if" you make it back home ... then i would look at replacing the frame completely.
you can buy a 2 post hoist for about $2500. with this you can lift the body off, roll out the frame and drivetrain, swap the frame for one from the states in clean shape and reinstall.
but
if it was me, i would go looking for a clean gasser 60 and swap your engine/tranny/tcase in. if the frame is that bad you KNOW the body has had work done to it so it is just a matter of time before the rust returns. no use dumping good money after bad.

as for the seller, a "frame off" is just that, body removed from the frame and a ground up refurbishing. there seem to be more and more crooks springing up in the cruiser world and a number of "uninformed" and "over trusting" buyers gobbling up s***.

come on people, have a potential cruiser buy inspected by someone that actually KNOWS cruisers. better to pay someone a few hundred to go inspect it than dump thousands into a POS.
 
c0-op would be nice

Heh, first I should clarify that I just go by Leit, since I seem to be on here quite a bit now. :) And yes, that's more or less what Mark said. He felt that if I could make it to Seattle without damaging it further that it would be possible to fix, but he definitely suggested a frame swap as the better option. The problem I'll face is that's something I've never done and I certainly don't have the equipment to move big, heavy things like the body or engine around easily. There really needs to be some kind of co-op shop that people like me can work in...

How often do you see BJ60 frames around there? Or will I need to just have the 3B engine mounts welded on an FJ60 like was done with this one?


Edit:

I just went and looked at the photos and you're right, they aren't clear! The rust definitely goes through on the inside channels...And in more than just the usual locations per Mark.


The problem with a co-op, or Do-it-your self shop is they are not profitable or, in one case, dangerous "customer almost bled to death, leading to lawsuit against shop".

I remember in the military, we had a on base do it shop. It was great! there was also some idiots in there that made mistakes. But the idea is good, IF you are fast, know what you are doing, have all the tools and parts available, else the shop will end up loosing money.

For example, with exhaust, I would not necessarily know the size of the nut that I just heated and removed. I could waste lots of time using a pitch guage, then a run to the parts store, only to find that size is out of stock.

I changed my policy for my customers on exhaust bolts now. All new hardware from the dealership period! no Micky mouse wasting time figuring the size required, when I KNOW the size is correct based on year,make,model of vehicle and purchased before the job starts.





 
If it would be only the inner plate, it could be repaired, but seeing how it is, the whole frame is mostlikely affected and thin. Look for a new frame, if you want to keep this truck for a long period. How does this truck look like? Worth the trouble?
 
Heh, first I should clarify that I just go by Leit, since I seem to be on here quite a bit now. :) And yes, that's more or less what Mark said. He felt that if I could make it to Seattle without damaging it further that it would be possible to fix, but he definitely suggested a frame swap as the better option. The problem I'll face is that's something I've never done and I certainly don't have the equipment to move big, heavy things like the body or engine around easily. There really needs to be some kind of co-op shop that people like me can work in...

How often do you see BJ60 frames around there? Or will I need to just have the 3B engine mounts welded on an FJ60 like was done with this one?

Edit:
I just went and looked at the photos and you're right, they aren't clear! The rust definitely goes through on the inside channels...And in more than just the usual locations per Mark.
only difference I know between 3b and fj60 frame is engine mounts. perhaps fuel tank hook up points? did you move to Seattle?
 

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