FJZ80 Starter problems (1 Viewer)

[cmg864]

The paragraph below describes a problem I am having with the starter on my 1996 LC. Any help would be appreciated.

This winter I starter having intermittent starter problems. I would turn the ignition to the start position and nothing would happen . . . the starter was not straining to turn over, clicking or anything. It seemed to happen more often on cold mornings. I would continue to turn the key back and forth to the start position and eventually the engine would fire right up. Sometimes it took only 2 or 3 turns, sometimes many. The vehicle is equipped with an aftermarket alarm system that I don't use and for a I while I had convinced myself it was related to the alarm's ignition kill, since playing with the alarm would sometimes get the ignition to fire. My mechanic could not diagnose the problem without having it repeat for him. The problem got worse until it wouldn't start at all. I towed the vehicle in and my mechanic replaced the starter contacts. The problem went away . . . temporarily.

Now it is summer and a similar problem is happening when the vehicle is hot . . . the engine, not necessarily the ambient temperature. I let my mechanic drive the vehicle for several day, but it never happen while he was driving it. He thought it might be the starter-neutral link . . . so I would toggle the shfter while I held the key in the start position. This worked a few times, but seems to be more coincidence than anything. Now when it happens, I open the hood to cool the engine and after a few minutes the vehicle will fire right up. I trust my mechanic and believe he is very honest--he doesn't want to replace anything I don't need to replace, but we can't figure it out. My mechanic says that my current problem is unrelated to the prior problem (which replacing/cleaning the starter contacts fixed), but it is so similar I'm not sure.

Anybody heard of this before?

 

[cruiserdan]

It is possible that when the contacts were installed that they were not perfectly perpendicular to the plunger surface. This condition leads to very rapid contact wear.

 

[wb1948]

I am having the same problem, diagnosis is starter contacts?

 

[Kalawang]

The problem sounds electrical and therefore beyond most mechanics. More so because the problem, I suspect a relay, is intermitent and therefore more difficult to track down. Even if you are testing the faulty peice, it might be working at that moment.

Look for a good car electrician.


Kalawang

 

[IdahoDoug]

I'd go with either starter contacts not installed perfectly flat (manual calls for some 250lbs of pressure while tightening fastening screw) or possibly non-Toyota contacts, OR that the plunger was not replaced and is now pitted beyond proper use. I once replaced contacts only and had a couple of hot engine no-starts just like yours within months. Order a plunger and new contacts from Cdan using the starter serial number visible on your starter and I suspect all will be well. I'd definitely do this before plunging off into the jungle of random electrical connection searching - way cheaper and waaaaay faster.

DougM

 

[Kalawang]

You could also use a tester to see if power is getting to your starter, and also try hot wiring the starter to see if that works. Either test will be reasonably definitive if the problem were persistent, but as the problem is intermittent it could also be there and not show.

Whatever you decide is probably the right thing to do because you are in the hot seat. We may need more facts such as the age of the vehicle and the use it was being put to. I drive a 15 year old cruiser and electricals are beginning to demand replacement. If yours is new and you haven't been playing with your wiring, or spending a lot of time on the beach, then it's time to take a good look at your starter contacts or even the bendix.


Kalawang

 

[SUMOTOY]

FZJ80 Starter problems

Just did this in my shop (Audi independent Tech) on a 93 80. I went thru the known diagnostics with the exact same symptoms. I say you have flat spots in the starter, replace starter. You can either rebuild the starter yourself, or get it rebuilt, or exchange it for a rebuilt. As a rule, after 10years, I like to get the originals rebuilt with the known miles. Also, there are two versions of the LC starter, a gear reduction standard duty (1.4KW) and a cold weather package HD version (2.2KW), the latter more desired. Beware if you do an exchange that most retailers/rebuilders give you the non-HD version even with your HD core.

HTH

Scott Justusson
'94 FZJ80 Emerald
'87 4R turbo A/T

 

[Stefangoalie]

I bought a brand new starter from Toyota, and my problem didnt go away. I dont think it is the starter, its gotta be electrical, but why would it go away temporarily when replacing starter? I am stumped, whatever it is, its wearing down the starter, so we assume thats what it is. Anymore insight? Has anyone fixed this permeanently?

 

[SUMOTOY]

New starter - still problems

When I did this diagnostic, for starter, you deal with the following: Alarm, Neutral Safety switch, ignition switch and starter. After researching this on Alldata and the various forums several months ago, a 'come back' problem after a new starter sounds most likely an ignition switch. High amp + high life cycles on 'electro plastic' components can/will cause intermittent electrical problems.

Neutral Safety Switch is a fairly straight forward diagnostic (continuity). I can fax you the pin-out if you need it.

HTH

Scott Justusson
'94 FZJ80 emerald

 

[semlin]

i think someone posted a while ago about a worn out ignition cylinder causing this type of problem. Do you or did the PO have a big key ring because that can contribute to it?

I would also check your battery terminal connections to see if one is loose

Otherwise, the problem occuring when hot reminds me of my old vw westfalia automatic which had starter issues after long drives when hot. part of the problem there was the factory wiring had no starter relay and there was a voltage drop over the ignition wiring exacerbated by aging wires and connections. Part of the problem was that the starter was too close to the auto tranny and would get very hot on long drives at which point it would not perform as well and the voltage drop was exposed. A relay helped. My suspicion is something similar is the problem here. I would look very carefully at the condition of your wiring working your way out from the battery to the starter and then if there are any relays on the starter circuit I would replace them.

 

[cmg864]

thanks for the insight

Thanks for all the ideas and insights. I wonder if I have a combination of problems--poor reassembly after the previous contact work and additional electrical/wiring issues related to the aftermarket alarm and/or starter neutral link.

Hopefully I can solve the problem now.

 

[Stefangoalie]

It took me a lot of work, but I was able to get my truck to do it so I could check things out. I checked all the relays, and noticed on was very hot. I am going to try changing it, and if it doesnt work I will get the alarm COMPLETELY removed. I dont know why people pay punks with no training to hack in alarm systems. I'll let everyone know if replacing the relay works, its about all I havent done.

 

[roncruiser]

I had a problem similar to yours.

Check that the power from the battery is getting to you ignition switch. I found there was and open somwhere between the battery and the ignition switch. I used an ohm meter to check.

I then "hot wired" the LC. I bypassed the questionable faulty wire. I took same guage wire and put a 30A fuse in series and ran it right from the battery to the where the faulty wire entered the ignition harness and tapped in right before the connector. It fired right up! I then replaced the fusible link, but that did not take care of the problem. Now, I just have a "hot" wire running parallel to faulty wire right up to the ignition. Still have the 30A fuse in series there too.

Good luck.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Ron,

I'm not clear on your last paragraph. Everything seemed cured, but then you replaced the fusible link and the problem was still there?? Huh? Could you clarify this - did you solve the issue or not?

DougM

 

[roncruiser]

Doug,

When I found the open, I suspected the fusible link. I thought, what the heck it's easy enough to replace... so I replaced it. Well, the problem was still there. It wasn't the fusible link. The open was somewhere between the ignition switch and the fusible link. Instead of replacing the known bad wire, I just ran another wire parallel.

The problem was intermittant. The ohm meter was useful to find the open where it should have been continuous. A voltmeter was very useful to verify no voltage where there should have been 12V at the ignition switch. BUT the EWD was the most useful in figuring what to look for. Just the one straight shot wire to the ignition was the culprit. It didn't branch off multiple times and power anything else. It was a safe fix.

No problems since.

Hope this clarifies.

Ron