FJ80 Post knuckle rebuild pull - Edit: problem found (1 Viewer)

[BlutoF15]

Thanks all. @ZetheGSD not a weird question to me. At this point I’d have checked anything. Double checked the hoses, all good.

@SpenserAK Good point out. I had seen those threads but not that vid. I’m at probably 33 on the inner, and just set the outer at 45 per @BILT4ME It did seem to have improvement over the fish scale FSM method. Slight pull but it lessened enough that I question if it might be road crown so that’s gotta be pretty close.

I initially tried the trail gear nuts on reassembly from the rebuilt. Do not like. At all. They went into the spare parts bin. I wasn’t impressed with alignment/fit. Seems like a universal part that just isn’t quite right. When I reorder spare flange gaskets I’ll keep them in the parts bag with my spare tab washers. Easy.

 

[BlutoF15]

Great. Now I got that done, rage quit, and now even more mad to the point that I ordered new gaskets for both sides and spare cone washers and I’m going to reset both sides.

This thing will track straight again, or die.

 

[Malleus]

FWIW, the inner nut sets the bearing preload, it's the important one. The outer nut is a locknut. It only needs to be tight enough to keep the inner one from floating. Once the lockwasher tab is bent inwards, the inner nut should not move.

Your new cone washers are sticky because they have a better spring response than the old ones. They should not be easy to remove; if they are, they're not doing their job.

As far as pulling on the driveshaft to get the snap ring on, you have to remember there are four hinges in the front axle (I'm counting the differentials; just because they are slip fit and have a little play in them). If one, or both, are hard to pull, get both wheels off the ground, turn one wheel a couple of degrees back and forth, and then try to pull the driveshaft. You'll notice a marked difference in resistance to sliding.

As far as your pulling/drifting is concerned, you haven't mentioned any age/wear on the rod ends. I know you said it tracked well before the repair, and doesn't now, but you did have all the weight off the front end and did reload it when you put it back on the ground. I wouldn't rule out worn bushings, unless you know they are good (and not 25 years old). Just a thought.

 

[BlutoF15]

Good info, many thanks. That was mostly my understanding on the inner and outer nuts, and the tab washer. I have a fear that they are too loose now, so I want to check them yet again. I clearly don’t have the “feel” for them, and with the FSM sounding like a universally accepted poor method it just doesn’t feel right. (And it’s been long enough since completed that I don’t even recall what the inner nut on the drivers side is. I suppose it could be too loose causing a passenger side pull?)

Makes sense enough on the cone washers. I’ll buy that.

On pulling the axle, it makes sense in theory but I had the same issue if I recall correctly on the driver side, and the truck was on a shop lift when reassembling that side. Fully acceptable chance that I’m misremembering though.

Ugh. I really hope that’s not another rabbit trail of the $100 hell hole of parts. As far as my assumption, unless I find something that screams evidence to the contrary - everything is 30 years old, including the rod ends. While I’m still adamant I want to recheck the preload on the bearings on both sides, after that I’ll likely take it to an alignment shop.

Being in a place without a hope of a decent cruiser or even off-road shop is putting a damper on ownership with this and a couple of other issues. (Bone dry knuckles when I can personally verify the amount of grease on both sides, for one.)

 

[BILT4ME]

Good info, many thanks. That was mostly my understanding on the inner and outer nuts, and the tab washer. I have a fear that they are too loose now, so I want to check them yet again. I clearly don’t have the “feel” for them, and with the FSM sounding like a universally accepted poor method it just doesn’t feel right. (And it’s been long enough since completed that I don’t even recall what the inner nut on the drivers side is. I suppose it could be too loose causing a passenger side pull?)

Makes sense enough on the cone washers. I’ll buy that.

On pulling the axle, it makes sense in theory but I had the same issue if I recall correctly on the driver side, and the truck was on a shop lift when reassembling that side. Fully acceptable chance that I’m misremembering though.

Ugh. I really hope that’s not another rabbit trail of the $100 hell hole of parts. As far as my assumption, unless I find something that screams evidence to the contrary - everything is 30 years old, including the rod ends. While I’m still adamant I want to recheck the preload on the bearings on both sides, after that I’ll likely take it to an alignment shop.

Being in a place without a hope of a decent cruiser or even off-road shop is putting a damper on ownership with this and a couple of other issues. (Bone dry knuckles when I can personally verify the amount of grease on both sides, for one.)

What year is your truck?

Are you 100% sure you got the bearing races fully seated in the hub ? How about do they point the correct direction?

It's possible if this is a 91, 92, and some 93 and 94 have a short flange. The newer ones are a longer flange and the shorter axle shafts cannot reach.

However, if you didn't change axles, then you have something amiss inside.

 

[BlutoF15]

What year is your truck?

Are you 100% sure you got the bearing races fully seated in the hub ? How about do they point the correct direction?

It's possible if this is a 91, 92, and some 93 and 94 have a short flange. The newer ones are a longer flange and the shorter axle shafts cannot reach.

However, if you didn't change axles, then you have something amiss inside.

92 FJ.

I had read about the flange discrepancy, folks at cruiser outfitters got me set up with the correct stuff. New birfs but the axles were in good condition so they’re original.

Anything is possible, but races seem critical to me for alignment/west issues so that’s not something I use a substitute tool for. Proper race driver, threw them in the freezer, etc. definitely pointed in the right direction - but that’s always a good question. I’ve seen it.

 

[fresnoLC]

Did you use the fish scale to check preload when installing the new trunnion bearings? My first knuckle job I followed Otramm’s video in which he leaves the stock shims and doesn’t check the preload, but my passenger side had been serviced in the past and the preload was way off. Pulled hard to the right. Tore it back down and the trunnion bearings were shot.

 

[BlutoF15]

I did. I actually used the fish scale on the wheel bearing preload initially as well, but went back and readjusted.

Stock shims once everything was removed and went through the parts washer measured to be correct. On the stiff side around 8-9 ft-lb but still in the window.

Of note, the first adjustment to the passenger side wheel bearing did seem to help the pull to that side. I put a few more miles on yesterday, it’s definitely still there.

Still can’t figure out the dry axle housing ends (the balls!) It just seems like it will trash the felts like this. I don’t see anything about applying grease externally from the knuckles.

 

[BlutoF15]

Okay, more new gaskets and star washers arrived. Pulling both sides again, will try to reseat the bearings and get those eliminated as possibilities. I’m hesitant to do the driver’s side since it pulls to the passenger side, but at this point I need the leave of mind that they’re correct. Or at least as correct as I can make them.

 

[BILT4ME]

Okay, more new gaskets and star washers arrived. Pulling both sides again, will try to reseat the bearings and get those eliminated as possibilities. I’m hesitant to do the driver’s side since it pulls to the passenger side, but at this point I need the leave of mind that they’re correct. Or at least as correct as I can make them.

Have you checked to see if you have a rear brake dragging?

Mine is notorious for one rear brake or the other hanging and pulling one direction. Or, instead of hanging, one isn't working and it gives the same feel.

 

[BlutoF15]

Nope. Unaware of that one but it’s now on the list. Heck, maybe first.

Is that something that can suddenly appear after front end work? Better question - what causes it?

 

[BILT4ME]

Nope. Unaware of that one but it’s now on the list. Heck, maybe first.

Is that something that can suddenly appear after front end work? Better question - what causes it?

It doesn't normally appear after front end work. Usually after work on the brakes, particularly the rear.
It's a sticking caliper, either in or out. It pulls to one side but can get better or worse with braking.

I thought mine had finally evened out, but it turns out that the dude pulling had finally worn through the pads. The opposite side has hardly any wear. So, it's probably the side with little wear not working like it should. Last time I did the rear brakes, the RR wore out the pads in 6000 miles. Now I have 50K miles on them and the RR are at 60% or more but the LR were at the metal.

Just a thought.

If it started right after a front end rebuild, then it's most likely front end related.

 

[BlutoF15]

It doesn't normally appear after front end work. Usually after work on the brakes, particularly the rear.
It's a sticking caliper, either in or out. It pulls to one side but can get better or worse with braking.

I thought mine had finally evened out, but it turns out that the dude pulling had finally worn through the pads. The opposite side has hardly any wear. So, it's probably the side with little wear not working like it should. Last time I did the rear brakes, the RR wore out the pads in 6000 miles. Now I have 50K miles on them and the RR are at 60% or more but the LR were at the metal.

Just a thought.

If it started right after a front end rebuild, then it's most likely front end related.

Copy all.

92, my rears are drum. While I suspect they could use service, I don’t think it’s the culprit in this case.

Sequence of events was: all good - front end job - pull to the passenger side immediately from mile 1.

I have in the back of my head it’s brake related, as I *still* can’t get my original pedal feel back no matter how many times I bleed the system. But I’m not Cruiser savvy enough to be sure. (Clearly, lol) Could be correlation vs causation.

 

[BILT4ME]

Copy all.

92, my rears are drum. While I suspect they could use service, I don’t think it’s the culprit in this case.

All good - front end job - pull to the passenger side immediately.

I have in the back of my head it’s brake related, as I *still* can’t get my original pedal feel back no matter how many times I bleed the system. But I’m not Cruiser savvy enough to be sure. (Clearly, lol) Could be correlation vs causation.

Did you change your calipers and hoses?

If not, did you just squeeze the pads back without opening the bleeders? If so, you may have pushed debris back into the line and even up to the master cylinder. This can cause calipers to stick.

How old are the hoses? If they are original or more than 10 YO you should replace them. Handling the caliper could have been the final damage on the hose.

Don't rule out one side. A sudden start to pull could be either that side dragging or the opposite side not working at all.

 

[BlutoF15]

Did you change your calipers and hoses?

If not, did you just squeeze the pads back without opening the bleeders? If so, you may have pushed debris back into the line and even up to the master cylinder. This can cause calipers to stick.

How old are the hoses? If they are original or more than 10 YO you should replace them. Handling the caliper could have been the final damage on the hose.

Don't rule out one side. A sudden start to pull could be either that side dragging or the opposite side not working at all.

I didn’t. And I did use that method to reinstall. I was hoping to avoid that after inspecting and seeing that the rotors and pads were good. I had higher aspirations, and have new rotors and pads in boxes in the garage. The knuckle job was the deterrent lol

That said, I can’t vouch for the age of the brake hoses. I can’t imagine they’re original but I’d guess they’re more than 10yo.

 

[Godwin]

Copy all.

92, my rears are drum. While I suspect they could use service, I don’t think it’s the culprit in this case.

I have in the back of my head it’s brake related, as I *still* can’t get my original pedal feel back no matter how many times I bleed the system. But I’m not Cruiser savvy enough to be sure. (Clearly, lol) Could be correlation vs causation.

Change in brake pedal feel is attributable to rear drums needing adjustment. If you don't know the condition of the rear brake system pulling the drums and checking the condition of the shoes should be done.

 

[BlutoF15]

Change in brake pedal feel is attributable to rear drums needing adjustment. If you don't know the condition of the rear brake system pulling the drums and checking the condition of the shoes should be done.

Makes sense. It’s on the list. First priority is to get it back tracking straight. I’ll probably just have the rears replaced.

Follow up question through - the rears were never touched. Anything in the process of a knuckle rebuild and assembly that could cause sudden rear drum adjustment issues?

 

[BlutoF15]

Solved. Not Pleasant.

I ordered a stack of gaskets and (the wrong) cone washers, and star washers. Which came with new inner and outer nuts and indexed washer. (Which are off in thickness from stock but that’s another story.) I was going to keep setting preload until it drives straight.

This is a classic case of being fully perplexed and then a huge facepalm when you find it. I redid the passenger side yet again today, the side it pulls to. Reassembled and pulled the driver side after 40-50 minutes working on cone washers.

Driver side was too loose. I mean, way loose. And the outer nut had also backed off somehow, I’m guessing due to load pressure with a loose bearing. Threads on the spindle seem okay but the nuts won’t thread back on. So I’ll try a thread file and Toyota parts (which I thought I ordered) to see, and if no good a new spindle I guess. Bearing visually inspects fine but there’s no way. New bearings, races, and oil seal on order.

I think the FSM method isn’t only “questionable” but firmly incorrect. Why I didn’t check both sides immediately is the question. And the facepalm.

Live and learn. Luckily the only driving I did on it was “testing” after pulling the passenger side each time. I imagine that could have gotten bad if I just went with it.

 

[BILT4ME]

Solved. Not Pleasant.

I ordered a stack of gaskets and (the wrong) cone washers, and star washers. Which came with new inner and outer nuts and indexed washer. (Which are off in thickness from stock but that’s another story.) I was going to keep setting preload until it drives straight.

This is a classic case of being fully perplexed and then a huge facepalm when you find it. I redid the passenger side yet again today, the side it pulls to. Reassembled and pulled the driver side after 40-50 minutes working on cone washers.

Driver side was too loose. I mean, way loose. And the outer nut had also backed off somehow, I’m guessing due to load pressure with a loose bearing. Threads on the spindle seem okay but the nuts won’t thread back on. So I’ll try a thread file and Toyota parts (which I thought I ordered) to see, and if no good a new spindle I guess. Bearing visually inspects fine but there’s no way. New bearings, races, and oil seal on order.

I think the FSM method isn’t only “questionable” but firmly incorrect. Why I didn’t check both sides immediately is the question. And the facepalm.

Live and learn. Luckily the only driving I did on it was “testing” after pulling the passenger side each time. I imagine that could have gotten bad if I just went with it.

Did you forget to bend over the tabs on the locking ring?
One on the inner nut and one on the outer.

Inner nut to 35, outer to 45.

 

[BlutoF15]

It was bent. Clearly not enough. Not enough wear and definitely no “trauma” to jar anything loose. Only explanation is that nut backing off due to me.