FJ60 won't start. (1 Viewer)

[Doc]

Hopped in the 60 after work today to go home. Pulled the choke to one notch out and started it. It started, grumbled a bit and died.

Pumped gas, tried it agian. Same result.

Pushed choke all the way in, pumped gas a lot. Tried to start it, motor cranks- but doesnt turn over.

I have gas in the fuel filter, but can't check if the pump is working. Also don't know if I'm actually getting spark.

How do I check to see if I'm getting spark, or fuel?

As much as I tried over and over to pump the gas I never smelled gas like I think I should have. I even tried pumping it like 10 times just to see if I was getting gas. My thinking is (because I can't smell the gas getting to the carb) that the fuel pump is bad.

An old jeep wagoneer I used to drive was carb'd I think. If I pumped the gas more than tree times it'd reak of gas smell. The 60 never did, no matter how much I pumped the pedal.

Is it common for the pump to just fail like that?

 

[Poser]

Re:FJ80 won't start.

Too many inconsistancies here....

April fools was over a month ago...

Good luck there doc.




OOOOHHHHH it is krystal kleer now....you are from Iowa...



The US 80 series does not have a 'choke' lever/cable etc...


Are you talking about your 60 series?

Yes a fuel pump can just up and die like that, I would not say that it is 'common' however...


Can you see fuel in the window of the carb?

Check for spark? Pull a plug and ground it out to the block and crank the engine. You should see a spark jump the gap if the ignition system is working properly..


Good luck!


-Steve

 

[Doc]

Sorry! It's been a long day at work, and now this!

Yes, my 60 won't start. I didn't know there was a 'window' in the carb, I'll go back to work and check it.

Thanks Steve!

Any other opinions?!

 

[Poser]

"Any other opinions?!"

Lots, but you do not want to hear them....trust me!


ME: I would crack a fuel line, probably right up at the carb from the pump, and see if fuel leaks out when you crank the engine.

NO SMOKING!


Good luck!

-Steve

 

[Doc]

I cracked open the fuel before the filter, but I think I said that already.

I'll have to go back with tools to check it out.

Thanks again, sorry for the incoherrance!

 

[Doc]

No Gas in window. I took the air cleaner top off and opened up the choke plate to look inside too- nothing.

I guess this means a bad fuel pump?

Damn. Two days down time until a new one arrives.

 

[anti-friend]

and then the fun part, installing the fuel pump! I hope it works, good luck.

 

[swank60]

Probably not a bad fuel pump. If your carb fan isn't working, the heat will boil out the contents of the carb and you'll be left empty. It's a commong 60 thing.

Here's how to get it started: use a pair of needle nose vise grips and find the linkage to the choke - there's a conv plate where you can clamp it down - I can't take photos right now, you'll have to figure it out. (before you clamp it, pull the choke knob all the way out) - that should get you fired up. If you can't find the choke linkage, you can try blocking the main breather inlet. Sometimes that will do it - use a little starting fluid (b12, WD40, etc...)

Once you get it started and home, and once it's warmed up, shut it down and watch it for a bit. First thing, put your head up to the vent on your fender - you should hear the fan running and there should be air being sucked into the engine bay. If you can't hear it, raise the hood and look for it and see if it's running. It's a big black fan on the driver's side fender well. If it's not blowing, that's the problem - you can also see the gas boil out of the carb (little bubbles) - get the fan fixed, and you're good. There's a few threads about it on here...

Your fuel pump is probably fine. Like I said, don't just throw parts at it. That still won't fix it. I'd put my money on the carb fan.

 

[swank60]

Now that I think about it, it adds up. The PO ran the hell out of the starter because the carb fan wasn't working and that's what you've got to do to get fuel back in the carb, blew the fusable link, and there went your alt readings...

At least that's what I did to mine...

 

[60wag]

If the filter and fuel pump are functioning, the carb will fill up with gas even if the carb fan is dead. Crank it for 15-20 secs then check the carb window. Sometimes you need to shake the truck a bit to make the fuel slosh around to see it. If you can't see any fuel in the window, you have a fuel problem. If youu see any fuel in the carb, you should be able to get a squirt out of the accelerator pump in the carb. Pull off the top of the air cleaner and look down the barrel closer to the engine. There is a lever arm on top of the carb, parallel to the engine, engine side of the carb. Move it a few times and you should see a squirt of gas spraying into the barrel. (choke off) Even with a dead fuel pump, you can fire up the engine by priming it with the accel pump. I think you have an ignition problem. Test the spark with a removed spark plug. I was just looking at your other post with the ignition pictures. I don't know much about the Jacobs ignition, but I'm guessing the the PO added the Jacobs coil, and Jacobs igniter to the existing igniter. The pics are hard to follow but there is a green wire on that terminal strip that is tied to the OE igniter. The green wire is lost in the jumble of wires, but I don't see a green wire going to the Jacobs coil. I figure it goes to the other box which might be an igniter? Looks like two igniters in series? I think you have an ignition problem. Keep us posted.

 

[Doc]

Let me try to address these new issues. It's NOT the carb fan. It works. I can hear it running when I shut the car off. It was running yesterday morning when I got to work.

When I pump the gas pedal NO GAS gets into the carb! Nothing! NADA! Zippo! Zilch! It's dry as a bone in there.

That's what's got me thinking it's the pump. Now- I am by no means an expert mechanic- but why else would pumping the gas not get me any gas? As many times as I pumped the pedal yesterday it should be flooded to the point of running over! There's no gas at all in the carb as far as I can tell. With the air cleaner top off- pumping the gas pedal gets me nothing. No 'squirts', no gas smells, nothing.

[quote author=60wag link=board=1;threadid=15852;start=msg151482#msg151482 date=1083815554]
Even with a dead fuel pump, you can fire up the engine by priming it with the accel pump.
[/quote]

See- this is exactly what I thought yesterday! It doesn't make sense why pumping the gas pedal will not put gas in the carb! I'm definately confused.

 

[Jukelemon]

Do what Poser said. Pull the fuel line at the carb and see if gas spills. It is the simplest, quickest way to determine where the issue is located within the fuel delivery process. No gas=pump issues or clog lines. Gas=carb issues/ignition problems. As well, if you spray some starting fluid into the carb and if the engine runs, you know you do not have ignition issues.

You can pretty much narrow this down in about 10 minutes and $5.00.

Report back.

 

[Doc]

^ Yep. Will do that today. Thanks guys! I'll let you know what happens.

My project car is becomming a real learning experience! Good thing I've temporarily made it my daily driver to work these bugs out. Much better to have a fuel pump fail in the parking lot at work than 50 miles away from the nearest phone!

 

[Doc]

I pulled the rubber hose off of the out going line on the fuel pump. I didn't have a wrench to remove the hard line off of the carb.

Gas spilled out when wifey tried to start the car. That means the fuel pump works right? Ok. Gas didn't shoot out, more like gurgled and bubbled out. Not a lot of pressure. This is correct if I remember what was said earlier.

Now. I took the air cleaner off of the top of the carb. and tried to start the car again. I see NO GAS going into the carb. Should it be coming out of the little cut off pipe over the choke plate? I also don't see any gas in the window of the carb.

I'm at my wits end here. My half skills are tapped. I think the next move is to have it towed to a mechanic. Unless you guys have any idea why gas wouldn't be getting into the carb?

 

[Doc]

If I wanted to go back and try pouring starter fluid in the carb. Where do I pour it? Anywhere? The open barrel, or the one covered by the choke plate?

 

[60wag]

A bit of gas or some spray starting fluid would be a good test. Dump it in the barrel closer to the engine. Actually either should work, but the primary - the one closer to the engine, is the one that opens when you push the accelerator and will get more air flow throught it.

Did you ever try the spark plug test to see if the ignition is working at all? If there is truly no gas in the carb window, then you do have a fuel problem. The starting fluid should confirm that the ignition is making a spark. The fuel pump could be bad and put out small amout of gas when disconnected but not make enough pressure to fill the carb. One more option (thinking out loud here) there is a metal screen in the fuel line where the metal fuel line attaches to the carb. It could be plugged up, but gas burbling out of the fuel pump sounds more like a bad pump or a clogged filter. You did say you replaced the filter, or not?

Hang in there. Its frustrating as hell when you can't figure it out and oh so worth it when you do.

 

[Doc]

Sorry. Yes. Stoped by Oreily's and picked up a brand spankin new in-line generic fuel filter. Identical to the one that was already there, but larger bore diameter. I got 5/16" to replace the 1/4 that was there.

I'll go back up there in an hour or so and dump a bit of gas in the carb.

Frankly I'm a little scared to remove a plug and see if it sparks! Especially after the gas spill that occoured when the pump went up. I'll also remember to take a wrench along this time to remove the hard line to the carb.

 

[IDave]

FJ40 carbs have a little screen/filter where the fuel line enters the carb. It can and does become plugged or corroded and plugged. Not sure if the 60's carb has that, but I expect it does. You need to check that end out.

 

[Doc]

YEEEEEHAWWWWW!

The 60 is in the driveway.

I cracked the line at the carb looking for that screen filter. If mine came with one stock- it's gone now. No screen filter there. Tried to start the car with that disconnected to make sure it was getting gas UP TO the carb. Gas gurgled out when the car turned over.

Then I poured about a 1/3 or 1/4 cup of gas in the carb. Majority into the barrel nearest the engine, some in the outside barrel.

Started nearly instantly.

Ok- it started (Thank GOD), but why? What was wrong that it wouldn't start before. I read something somewhere about the float or something like that becoming stuck so that gas couldn't enter.. yes? No?

Did I shut the car off too quickly? Should I let it idle for a couple of seconds after coming to a stop?

I'm thrilled it's up and running, but I want to understand WHY it wouldn't start until I manually filled the carb.

I owe everyone that contributed to this post a big cold one. Next time your in Iowa, let me know.

 

[Doc]

Also, on a related note- why would all that gas pedal pumping result in NO gas getting pumped in? I figure it's probobly related to why wouldn't gas get in when starting the car- until I poured some in.