Builds fj60 going to EV FJ45 (2 Viewers)

[workingdog]

Okay, here it is with the body lowered into position (without body isolators, so it will be another inch up). We are going to bring it up about 3" and move it back about 2". That will help exposure below the frame and we'll see if it moves the transfer case back into the mid frame cross member. But, if it does, we'll just relocate the crossmember.

But, this is a very exciting step towards making this rig a reality. Looking at it, I realized I have a month of wiring alone, and a month of steering and suspension and brakes, and I haven't even thought about the cab yet. At least there's no fuel system or exhaust to worry about.

 

[workingdog]

Working on the steering. I’m going to use a city racer electric steering column and I bought a used late model steering column off mud to get the parts I need (the Aqualu tub comes with nothing but a hole in the firewall). However, the one part I really needed came with this tube bugger welded to it.

So, I cute the bugger weld off and threw away the tube, but now I have this.

The bottom of the city racer column will bolt to the firewall cover plate.

But what I can't figure out is proper bushing and/or bearing to use at the firewall. There will be a non-power Saginaw box on the drivers from frame horn. So, I will be cutting the rag joint off the bottom of the City Racer electric steering box and welding on a u-joint that goes forward. What’s the right part to go in there, and does it go in the cover or in the bottom of the column tube? Cruiser Outfitters has a bushing and a bearing (and a plate they sell for Saginaw conversions), but I can't really figure out how that is all supposed to work.

 

[Toyoland66]

Mine (Saginaw) has a pillow block bearing with a 4 bolt flange that bolts to the same 4 bolts as the column.

I think the bearing that cruiser outfitters sells presses into the end of the column tube, that could work if the city racer tube is the same size as stock (also the shaft now that I think about it).

there’s a pic in this post:

Steering Column Experts : Please Unite

1977 FJ40 / 2F / Saginaw Conversion This issue has been addressed by other members here, but I have a logistical question. I need to replace this bushing due to an insanely annoying metal / metal knocking at the firewall : (Image borrowed from other thread) To execute this...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[workingdog]

@Toyoland66 Thank you

 

[workingdog]

Let's talk about steering. Here is the CityRacer electric steering column temporarily installed and the rag joint cut off.

So, I don't know crap about steering boxes. The Gladiator front axle is all set up for steering. (we'll get it into position tomorrow).

I'm aware there are a couple of options.

The most traditional would be to use a Saginaw (manual in my case) box mounted on the frame rail in front of the cross member and run the steering shaft through the hole in the cross member. Looking at the angle, the steering column is more over the frame than I expected. I'm assuming I use a coupler and extend the column down to a joint that runs near the frame, to another joint on the steering box.

I believe another option is to use a different box (fj60 manual box?) on the frame rail before the front cross member. Is there any advantage to this? Other than the routing of the steering shaft would seem to be easier?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

That frame looks like it's set up for a saginaw steering box, with that round sleeve on the front crossmember.

FJ60 or FJ/FZJ80 boxes can be easier, as the steering shaft sits above the frame rail, but there's no particular advantage/disadvantage to either. They're just different setups.

 

[05CTD]

I agree I have ran saginaw and FJ60 before my current rig is a 60 steering box. I like it personally because I dont have the steering box hanging out on the end of the frame rail. I also use a 4 bolt pillow block bearing on the firewall Ive been doing steering conversions that way for a long time. Its starting to come together motors and all look great. Congrats on a one off thats going to be bad @ss...

 

[workingdog]

When I was ordering joints and shaft from Borgeson, they had a simple 3/4 bearing on a plate that I should be able to easily mount to fire wall. I have an fj80 box (which is almost identical to an fj60 box). But it's a power box, and I need a manual box.

So, I'm looking at Redheads 0R-7104.

OR-7104: 1964-1969 AMC or GMC Passenger Cars Steering Gear

Part Number: OR-7104. Part Number Fits: 1964-1969 AMC or GMC Passenger vehicles.

redheadsteeringgears.com

Does that look right. 3 bolt. The guy said they also have a 4 bolt version and a version with a flat on the input shaft.

 

[workingdog]

The motor mounts are some of the most complicated fabrication I've never done. I bought a SWAG off road bandsaw table and Milwaukee band saw and the thing is awesome. I could not have built the front motor mounts without it and will do 75% of what I've been using the plasma cutter for - and better.

For those reading along who are new to fabricating, I want to say that I had dozens of different ideas about how to do the mount on the very front of the motors.

First was to go to the frame, like a traditional crossmember, but I realized the axle would be right there. When I got the motor in the frame, I saw how close the motors were to the very stout front crossmember and decided to go that way, but it was not clear how to get from the crossmember to something that would support the front of the motor. This is what I came up with. It's nuts, but it works. There are two now, one more will go in the middle. Took quite a few iterations to get it right - especially since when I moved the motor to take the blocking out that held it up, the motor moved and I had not set up a reference to where it was. I'm definitely taking the attitude that this is just a mock up and I'll be thrilled if it survives the rest of the build process. But, it gets the motor in the frame for now and gives me something to work against as I move forward.

It's hard to see, but there's a 2 1/2"x14" plate under the structure holding the motors and a 1/2" poly bushing in between. I had some left over 2x4 box tubing from cutting the back 18" of the frame off and I cut one of those up with my plasma cutter to create a plate that wraps the cross member to both reinforce the attachment point and make the mount removable. Next step is to drill 2 or 3 or 4 bolt holes in the cross member and plate to bolt it in place, but for now, I'm going to tack it to the crossmember to keep it in place until the axles and front driveshaft are in and I see if I have to move the motor either up or down or left to right.

The structure holding the motor is 1.5x3 box tube. The hole is sleeved.

The middle mount is more conventional.

It sits just in front of the bell housing and should be out of the way. I bought some generic LS motor mounts for the sides and a piece of box tube to go under. I like it, but I think I should have put some poly bushings in between the motor and the crossmember. And, I didn't have the motor perfectly centered when I mocked it up, so the holes in the motor structure and the crossmember don't line up (all sleeved). That's life doing custom fabricating. It's very hard to keep everything in mind. So, it's going to have to come out and get 'improved' before too long. But, for this point in the build, it's holding the motor and trans up and I can finally get the axles under the thing.

Transmission cross member is a very straightforward piece of box tube straight across about 1/2" below the bottom of the frame. I'm waiting for the transmission support thing from Advance Adapters to finish it. We'll see if it has to be modified for the front drive shaft or not.

 

[workingdog]

The other thing I've been doing a lot of, that is a big help on a project of this magnitude/scale, is keeping in mind where I am in the process.

Ultimate goal - take the EV45 on the Rubicon
Intermediate goal - drive it around town regularly
Intermediate goal - drive it under it's own power out of the garage and back in
Intermediate goal - Get it on its tires
Intermediate goal - get the EV system basically functional

The EV system has already been made functional outside of the car, so the next thing is make it functional in the car (motors spinning)
So, that means that the car needs to be on it's wheels and basically functional so I know what what space issues I have when installing the EV system.

So, current goals
Get the drive train assembled in a unit - done except for transfer case and an issues with the clutch - and into the frame - that was accomplished with blocks until today.
Get axles under the frame - that meant getting the mounts done so I can get the blocking out and the axles in - so today that is done. At least first pass. Next is an hour of cleaning all the crap that has ended up under the frame in the last couple of months and role the axles in and get them in position.

Once the axles are in position, there is the very large task of doing the entire suspension, steering and brakes.
And very large task of wiring the EV and installing all the EV stuff - battery pack, charger, DC/DC converter, vacuum pump, etc., etc.

So, I figure both of those is a month to a month and a half each. And I expect to run into many, many issues along the way. And it's during that time I may realize I have to redo the motor mounts, totally change how the batteries are packaged, change from link to leaf spring or something else. But, I'm ready for that. No expectation is all going to be smooth sailing.

By end of summer, I hope to have the thing basically functional and hopefully able to pull it in and out of the garage, sitting on a milk crate in the cab. But after that, there's the entire process of turning that 'roller' into a drivable vehicle - seats, dash, headlights, the rest of the body, the flatbed, cooling, etc., etc., etc. So, I'm guessing it will be Christmas before I'm actually able to take it to the store with any kind of dignity. That would mean Rubithon 2022 would be the goal.

Anyway, I thought some would enjoy the thought process.

 

[workingdog]

So, I could use some help from the peanut gallery - as I muddle through the rear end. If I can do a fully triangulated four link in the rear because of the battery box, and I'd prefer not to do leaf springs, what other options are there? Some kind of torsion bar thing with panhard? I'm a little out of my depth.

 

[Bripars40]

Could you package something like the 80/100 series rear suspension? I know that's not 4 link but just a thought.

 

[DangerNoodle]

Radius arms with a Panhard would be really easy, pretty compact as well.

 

[workingdog]

Never owned anything like an 80 or 100. I guess it's time to get my study on. Where would I even go to get parts?

 

[DangerNoodle]

Never owned anything like an 80 or 100. I guess it's time to get my study on. Where would I even go to get parts?

There are plenty of good radius arm kits around. I'd look at Ruffstuff, TMR, WFO, Barns 4WD, or you could get brackets and joints separately. I personally would stay away from heim joints, but they do work.

 

[workingdog]

Yes, I found a few kits. I just figured out that the Gladiator comes with parallel 4 link (more or less) with panhard front and back. So, I can use all the stock mounts on the axle, and even buy stock links from someplace like Metal Cloak and it would be ... still hard, but doable. I've already ordered the metal cloak links for the front. They are 'shaped' and I'm not sure how they'll fit, but at the very least I'll have the ends for the stock mounts if I have to cut them and do something more conventional. Front looks like it will come together without too much of a fight. Even steering and panhard look like they will work with little modification.

 

[workingdog]

Okay, the cab was down so I took a shot at steering and pedals. Pedal bracket and pedals I got off of Mud worked great.

Just needs some paint - but what color????

The EPS motor was rotated in a way that it was hitting the bracket badly, so I loosened the collar (I've got to remember to tighten that back up) and rotated the motor down relative to the mount - and it seems to be happy now.

So, that's one system that looks like it's going to work. I have the master cylinder here - and I think I have the clutch master as well.

 

[workingdog]

With the cab down, it's clear the transmission is way too high. At first, I was just trying to keep it from contacting the bottom of the tunnel, but now it's clear that it's going to have to get a lot lower for the transfer case (which I still need) to clear - about 3".

If the trans comes down, the engine comes down too, I don't think it can handle any more slope.

Which puts the motor mounts right on top of the front axle.
So, the packaging issues begin!

 

[Bripars40]

Could you modify the transmission tunnel to create more space rather than moving it all down?

 

[workingdog]

Yes, but that is beyond my skill. All aluminum.