Fj60 Fuel injection for 2F (1 Viewer)

RockDoc

I'll take Bruce Vilanch for the block.
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Do a thread title search for "2FE" to see the head / EFI swap onto a 2F block. Do a thread title search for "Holley Sniper" or just "Sniper" to see a less involved way of adding EFI to a 2F. IMO a 2FE makes sense for a truck already equipped with a 3FE, or if you have a full 3FE donor truck to rob parts from, Sniper (or others?) makes more sense for an original 2F truck with a decent 2F in it.

This thread illustrates that a 3FE intake manifold won't seal to a 2F head:
 

Seth S

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I don't think that would work with the 3FE setup, the intake assembly won't bolt up to the 2F head.

using the 2F head, he could go with the sniper setup.
i know the exhaust manifolds bolt up to the 2f head.

Edit:
I was curious and did some googling and found a thread going back to 2006 on pirate 4x4. Basically it references the clearance for the injectors as the main issue and it refers to the need for additional mount holes though I guess some of the 2f heads have them. So maybe it’s just the lack of clearance for the injectors that prevent success.

if I had a cracked head laying around I’d cut a piece off where the injectors ports would be to see if there is enough meat there to allow for clearance ing in the name of science 😂

Agree 100% about the sniper
 
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i know the exhaust manifolds bolt up to the 2f head.

Edit:
I was curious and did some googling and found a thread going back to 2006 on pirate 4x4. Basically it references the clearance for the injectors as the main issue and it refers to the need for additional mount holes though I guess some of the 2f heads have them. So maybe it’s just the lack of clearance for the injectors that prevent success.

if I had a cracked head laying around I’d cut a piece off where the injectors ports would be to see if there is enough meat there to allow for clearance ing in the name of science 😂

Agree 100% about the sniper
What about the sniper? Holley sniper?
 
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Do a thread title search for "2FE" to see the head / EFI swap onto a 2F block. Do a thread title search for "Holley Sniper" or just "Sniper" to see a less involved way of adding EFI to a 2F. IMO a 2FE makes sense for a truck already equipped with a 3FE, or if you have a full 3FE donor truck to rob parts from, Sniper (or others?) makes more sense for an original 2F truck with a decent 2F in it.

This thread illustrates that a 3FE intake manifold won't seal to a 2F head:
I actually have 2 complete 3FE’s that run great 1 is in a rolled 62 runs and drives great was thinking of making it a convertible and the other 3FE came from a engine swap and it runs great. I have seen some things about the Holley sniper FI , do these things work good?
 

Seth S

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I actually have 2 complete 3FE’s that run great 1 is in a rolled 62 runs and drives great was thinking of making it a convertible and the other 3FE came from a engine swap and it runs great. I have seen some things about the Holley sniper FI , do these things work good?
yes. Lots of happy 60 owners running the sniper setup. Building a 2fe is a lot of work. I have a feeling you could mill a 2f head down to the limit and do some gasket matching and do a sniper install as well as run the 3fe exhaust manifolds and be pretty close to the 2fe build.
 

Seth S

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ToyotaMatt

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i personally won't and don't intermingle NON-TOYOTA parts to a MODS level such as sniper , History has taught me " THINGS " like

a WEBBER Carb or a Silly GM Distributor only get put back to stock parts sooner then one would expect . and they , the sad old tired

webber at only Pre-School age gets chucked and hurdled into my shop Refuse can with much major League Force !

i can't speak for the sniper personally ....

But , i personally can call myself a experienced Purist :)


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Seth S

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A lot of the betterness of the 3FE comes from much better designs on the intake and exhaust manifolds. These are reasonably large slow revving engines with less than exciting combustion chamber designs and the additional limitation of a non cross flow head. The log manifolds on the 2F restrict flow and while they obviously work they leave much room for improvement. Rule of thumb for intake runners is (as I recall) low revs and making torque = long skinny intake tubes. High hp, higher revs = short fat runners. A 2F never makes it out of the long skinny runner territory so the 3FE intake runners are probably 3X - 5X longer maybe even 10x longer than on the 2F. The 3FE exhaust is pretty close to a try "Y" design and also helps with flow and engine exhaust dynamics. I've not compared their combustion chambers but I'd wager the 3FE is a better design.


found this picture comparing the two heads. As you can see the lower head (the 2F/3F) does not have the clearance for the injectors. The lower head also does not have holes for the alignment dowels.

1603717600512.png


Now if you really were motivated to install a 3FE intake manifold on the 2F head I think you could do it...the easiest way is probably to add a clearance plate...like a 1/4" thick or maybe 3/8" or even a 1/2" plate to the head or welded onto the the 3fe itself which would push the intake away from the head and eliminate the need for injector clearance. The cost of doing this will be that the injectors sit slightly farther back and you will have a reduced valve cooling affect and some level of impact to how the fuel mixes with the air stream. An adapter plate could have additional mount holes as well. It would require either O-rings or a second gasket for sealing purposes.


Here is a Mud thread thats pretty well covered this topic of comparison




****mad rantings not grounded in practicality or reason beyond this point****
The combustion chambers on the 3FE head is definitely tighter and lends to a higher compression ratio. If only we had a pile of heads, a nice machine shop, and an engine dyno handy we could do a whole bunch of testing. Would be great to see how machining a combustion chamber into a hemi shape would work and of course some level of domed piston. Though TBH I have no idea how well a hemi combustion chamber works or is limited by a non cross flow head design and a side mounted spark plug....usually centered/top plug location allows for the highest level of uniform flame propagation = most power and efficiency.
 
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ToyotaMatt

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A lot of the betterness of the 3FE comes from much better designs on the intake and exhaust manifolds. These are reasonably large slow revving engines with less than exciting combustion chamber designs and the additional limitation of a non cross flow head. The log manifolds on the 2F restrict flow and while they obviously work they leave much room for improvement. Rule of thumb for intake runners is (as I recall) low revs and making torque = long skinny intake tubes. High hp, higher revs = short fat runners. A 2F never makes it out of the long skinny runner territory so the 3FE intake runners are probably 3X - 5X longer maybe even 10x longer than on the 2F. The 3FE exhaust is pretty close to a try "Y" design and also helps with flow and engine exhaust dynamics. I've not compared their combustion chambers but I'd wager the 3FE is a better design.


found this picture comparing the two heads. As you can see the lower head (the 2F/3F) does not have the clearance for the injectors. The lower head also does not have holes for the alignment dowels.

View attachment 2476939

Now if you really were motivated to install a 3FE intake manifold on the 2F head I think you could do it...the easiest way is probably to add a clearance plate...like a 1/4" thick or maybe 3/8" or even a 1/2" plate to the head or welded onto the the 3fe itself which would push the intake away from the head and eliminate the need for injector clearance. The cost of doing this will be that the injectors sit slightly farther back and you will have a reduced valve cooling affect and some level of impact to how the fuel mixes with the air stream. An adapter plate could have additional mount holes as well. It would require either O-rings or a second gasket for sealing purposes.


Monday mornings can be intriguing after all , i never knew all that F Series TECH Jazz ? ......... 🤔


 

Seth S

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There is so much science that goes into intake/exhaust/flow passage/and combustion chamber design. Remember that all internal combustion engines (ICE's) are just air pumps. So the more efficiently you can move the air through the better chance you have for efficiency and power. How the flow is shaped on the way in and out, how its mixed with fuel, how the spark propagates, how the sound waves travel back and forth in the exhaust and intake all have an effect on performance. There are all sorts of resonances, pressure waves, turbulences etc that cause issues. Though to be fair the lower revs probably make this a little simpler...though could also be more challenging just because a small problem can impact your already reduced air supply.


While we are on the topic I've always wondered if a 2H head would bolt to a 2F block and same question for a 1Fzfe....just bolt to...many other issues on both. 1fzfe being 4 valves per cylinder, aluminum, and cross flow twin cam design, and 2H being a push rod engine of similar size with cross flow. There are kits to convert diesel engines to run on propane and they include a form of spark plug to create the ignition point. Again really need a giant pile of scrap engines to play with. We've done a lot of this stuff with that other brand I like to play with and there is a surprising amount of parts you can swap with the new and old to create monster engines.
 

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