FJ55, what is necessary to out-preform an 80? (1 Viewer)

[RHINO]

Pretty tough to get 200+ reliable HP out of a 2F. I know a bunch have done it, but I prefer the V-8 swap.

Since I feel these are all important and all stock on the 80 series and missing on a 55, I'm sticking to my opinion.

common misconception, just cause alot of guys dont know how doesnt mean its tough to do, IGOR the straight six has been runnin 7's in the 1/4 mile reliably.


all this time i thought v-8's didnt come stock till the 100 series, man i'm an idiot.

 

[KliersLC]

He means the 200+ Hp.














Clown(s)

 

[Pighead]

The question that alkaline747trio has posed is:
"Keeping leafs, and not adding armor, what would it take to keep up with a locked, J-sprung (4" lift), 35'd FJ/FZJ-80?"
Not "is a V8 better than a 6".
200 HP might be nice, but I don't NEED it to wheel well. Same with an auto, same with EFI.
Might be easier, but not necessary.
A straight-sixed, Aisin-carburated, stick-shifted Pig can keep up with a locked, lifted, 35'd FJ/FZJ-80 if the Pig is also locked, lifted, 35'd AND has modified gearing (105:1 is a good start).
So, alkaline747trio, there's your answer, IMNSHO, gears.

 

[FJBen]

The question that alkaline747trio has posed is:
"Keeping leafs, and not adding armor, what would it take to keep up with a locked, J-sprung (4" lift), 35'd FJ/FZJ-80?"
Not "is a V8 better than a 6".
200 HP might be nice, but I don't NEED it to wheel well. Same with an auto, same with EFI.
Might be easier, but not necessary.
A straight-sixed, Aisin-carburated, stick-shifted Pig can keep up with a locked, lifted, 35'd FJ/FZJ-80 if the Pig is also locked, lifted, 35'd AND has modified gearing (105:1 is a good start).
So, alkaline747trio, there's your answer, IMNSHO, gears.

Well said...Orion or toybox...you are golden

 

[RHINO]

A straight-sixed, Aisin-carburated, stick-shifted Pig can keep up with a locked, lifted, 35'd FJ/FZJ-80 if the Pig is also locked, lifted, 35'd AND has modified gearing
So, alkaline747trio, there's your answer, IMNSHO, gears.

that was my point from the beginning, off road all a pig needs is the regular stuff any other rig would get to hold its own, and often the case, surpass.

 

[Wayneraintree]

One aspect missing from this debate is the.............. tada "coolness factor", 55's are unique on the trail and surprisingly nimble. I stopped wheeling and sold my 60 series for my 55 because it is close to the same width as a 40 (body wise, axles wise it is identical) and I was beating the doors shut on the 60.... there are many 80's out there and I love seeing them on the trails... but they are big. Here in the east, wide = body damage (and $$) so I am much happier with the pig that fits in tight places (*although I am famous for 10 point turns) and they have a higher "coolness factor" IMO because there are not alot of them out there, much less built and 4+/black rated trail ready.... long live all cruisers, its just more challenging to make a 55 live long because some parts are unobtanium and of course, they are much older than an 80 and may have rust... wheel whatcha like! there are + and -'s for both, it purely a matter of personal style...

 

[Gumby]

I disagree. Given a better driver, the SOA geared pig may out-perform an 80, but it will be no where close to as easy to wheel as a coil sprung, 212 hp, auto shifted, fuel injected FJ-80.
Can it out-perform? Sure. I have a student with a stock 4 banger TJ that wheels the Hell out of it. He can drive it better than all kinds of other students with much more capabale rigs. Doesn't mean anybody can.

 

[fj55-100]

so i guess my 55 dosent count ,
more and more a 100 series every day

 

[Wayneraintree]

I disagree. Given a better driver, the SOA geared pig may out-perform an 80, but it will be no where close to as easy to wheel as a coil sprung, 212 hp, auto shifted, fuel injected FJ-80.
Can it out-perform? Sure. I have a student with a stock 4 banger TJ that wheels the Hell out of it. He can drive it better than all kinds of other students with much more capabale rigs. Doesn't mean anybody can.

under the pretense of a better driver, a go cart could out wheel a poor driver in an 80

speaking to the question of what is needed for a 55 to out 'preform' an 80... make it apples to apples and equivalent drivers.... then it all depends on the type of wheeling... and how you judge performance.. so totally subjective.

How's this: a locked, geared SOA 55 lined up next to a locked, lifted 80.... gentlemen (or ladies) start your engines.... what type of trails benfit the pig and what type benefit the 80? they are both 'fat' as far as trail rigs go so.... other than creature comforts not OE to a pig that are for an 80.. they are pretty darn similiar..

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

A big thing for me is a 55 is the width of a 40 or a 4 Runner versus an 80 which is a relatively fat rig. Even a 60 is something like 4" wider at the body... I like this a lot because you can really squeeze into a lot of situations that you can't with an 80... They are both heavy, yet the 55 does not have the creature comforts. It is amazing how a pig with slightly wider axles and gearing and lockers wheels. Especially SOA as well.. I am young and dumb and tough but these compforts are totally underrated, a nice quiet car goes a long long way. But they are autos and gas guzzlers and relatively FooFoo imo. Plus everyone and their mother has one, versus pigs that are fewer and farther between. Personally I love my pig and while I love the look of even an 80 I still probably wouldn'y buy one personally...

 

[Gumby]

There is no question the pig is unique. It is butt ugly in a cool way. But that doesn't affect performance.

The two biggest things the pig has going for it are width and willingness to do body damage, at least in my case where all the body panels are worthless anyway. you can also do strong, but ugly armor and improvements that you wouldn't do to an 80, like the shock hoops we put on mine this week.

I drove my pig for a ways today to go wheeling. It is not an 80. I don't know if I can throw enough money at it to make it an 80. it would take a lot. The 80 just simply outperforms the 55 in every aspect of driving. Perhaps as my 55 evolves I'll feel different. Perhaps I'll put a bunch of time and effort into it like I did with the 40 in an effort to make a 80 series like truck and just end up going back. There were an awful lot of times late last night where I just wanted to say, "screw it, lets put the armor back on the 80 and just take it" Now I'm headed back to the shop to work on it some more to try and solve the massive rear overhang problem, the suck ass carb issues and some other little things before I go back out tomorrow.

 

[ajfriz]

can't we all just get along? both are very cool/capable rigs, and with enough money you can build either one and argue it is better than the other. i have wheeled both and i can honestly say that i loved both of them. with the money to buy an 80 you can build a very nice 55. you will have to do way more work to the 55 as far as building a nice suspension/engine work to make it as nice as the 80. when you start with a nice platform like the 80 (great power,coils,fi,auto,etc.) it is going to be "easier" to build. both will need gears of course and lockers if you don't get a locked 80. personally i would take the 55 because i think that they are cooler because of looks and rarity. there are tons of 80s out there with lifts and bumpers but how many 55s do you see? they are both great for different types of trails/situations as far as width. it all comes down to how much time/money you would want to dump into a 55 to make it as comfy/capable as the 80.

 

[inkpot]

Howdy! Obviously, there is no perfect answer for this issue. It is up to each individual to figure out what is best for themselves. Toyota new 25 years ago that you could not make and 80 out of a 55, so they quit making them. You could always split the difference and build a SOA 60 series, with a FI V-8, lockers, and double transfer cases, but it still would not be an 80 or a 55.

Currently I have done most of the mods discussed so far other than FI. Auto tranny, and lower gears. I just ran a great trail with 7 80's and a 100, all lifted, locked, and armored. I can go sooo much faster than they can on the rough terrain, and especially in the rocks. This trail had 3 serious challenge hills, and they would all stop, and creep, and stop, and creep, etc. I picked my lowest gear, planted my throttle foot at 1500 rpm, and we rode to the top without faultering. On the third hill, the Piggy felt sort of squirrely going up, put we did make it OK. While I was trying to figure out if something had broken or come loose, I realized that I had unintensionally left my rig in 2wd-LO range from running thru some meadows. I made it up that ledge in 2wd. I wouldn't try it again on a bet, but I would bet that an 80 or 100 series would have had a lot more trouble than I did if they tried the same thing. I would be surprised if they could make it at all. They don't go fast enough to maintain the necessary momentum to push the front tires over the boulders.

If I was worried about a cushy ride home, I would trailer my Piggy. Not a gona happen! Not even at 118 degrees in July!

 

[RUSH55]

While I myself have never wheeled an 80, they are abundantly represented at just about every Cruiser gathering I've been to. I have yet to witness any of them do anything that me or the other 55 I wheel with (RHINO) couldn't do, offroad. And on at least one of those occasions, my pig was basically stock with the exception of a lift and some old ass 33" tires. And on at least one of those occasions, RHINO was doing stuff that even the more built 80 crowd wouldn't touch. And his rig, as one basis in my point, flexes to the point of ridiculousness, being only sprung over with Ironman springs, with a SR. I can without a doubt say that there has NEVER been a point in all our wheeling together, that he needed MORE flex. My suspension on the other hand, is nothing to write home about, but having since caught up on a few mandatory mods (PS, low crawl ratio, 35's) I can hang with him on any trail. I feel also that a SU holds certain advantages over a SO in certain situations and vice versa.
On-road is of course a different story with 55's and 80's. 80's have comfy, modernesque interior, comparitively quieter cab, better hadling with more ponies. Then there's the paint and body, which will always be the limiter in what you do offroad. This will hold true for both rigs. I wheeled with a guy from Prescott named Ben in an 80 that was beat to s***, with 37" MTR's, and a chopped top with huge roll cage welded to the body. He went where he wanted because there was no fear. Neither was there a comfy interior, quiet cab, or nice straight body with sweet paint. I also know of some people with some sweet restored 55's who won't take them on a muddy road. But a restored 55 with new weatherstripping will have a relatively quiet ride, and nice interior, and a nice ride.
I've built my rig to do what I want to do and go where I want to go. If there's a trail section I don't want to do, there's usually a good reason, something like massive breakage, which is something I don't care for when I'm wheeling 100 miles from home. I have healthy fear, but I'm not limited by my paint. My 55 has nothing to do with pretty, but it's not a wrinkled can either.
I think dollar for dollar it's a hard argument, maybe, but it does depend on what you're gonna do. But like what was mentioed in a previous post, if money didn't matter, it wouldn't even matter bringing up this interesting debate. And if you're just gonna hypothetically start plunking in a bunch of non-Toyota d-train parts, the whole point is lost anyways, the point being one model of LC versus another model of LC. If it's all Chevy v8's and auto tranny's with Dana axles, we're talking more about a Blazer than a LC.
As an observation, I'd say that alot of 80 guys are more concerned about their retail value than about longevity. That meaning a rig that will be there in the family for years and years. The opposite seems to be true for 55 guys, not all, but lots. That probably has to do with the age difference. 55's are close to being in the rare or collectable, while 80's like I mentioned earlier, are almost like J**p's, they're everywhere. After a personal review, I think it comes down to picking what suits your person.
FJ-55: Unique, basic, rugged, slow, rough, nostalgic, kinda fugly, but definitely loveable,

FJ-80: Common, complex, comfortable, newer, cleaner, quicker, and something I'm mostly indifferent to, so someone else can finish the characteristics.

 

[FJBen]

Christ...you 80 owners and your panties!


Too me...it sounds like this argument is coming down to personal preference/comfort rather than what is necessary to outpreform an 80 series.

I love both of those cruisers...own them both too...but given a choice to take either anywhere??? I'd take my 55 everytime. raining/blizzard/hot...

The 55 is beyond unique and can wheel like a beast...no problem keeping up with an 80 series for a lot cheaper than it takes to buy an 80 series, lift, tires gears...

 

[Gumby]

An 80 is a point and shoot wheeler. It is very easy to drive. I suspect if you posted this over in the 80s section where folks who wheel 80s hang out, you'd get different answers.

I've seen 80s wheel is not the same as I have wheeled an 80.

I'll admit one day in a pig on the trail does not make me an expert on them. My 55 is working on the list I posted to make it as capable as an 80 and it's far from close yet.

As far as cost goes. A lift for an 80 is FAR cheaper than lifting a pig. Tires cost the same. Armor doesn't have to cost more. Most of the other improvements have already been done. FI, 4wdb, full floaters, lockers, better engine, auto trans, etc.

An 80 without the center diff locked will not go where a 55 in 2wd will go? silliness. I wheeled all day with my center diff lock stuck off. AWD will outperform 2wd every day of the week.

 

[RUSH55]

A J**p Cherokee is a point and shoot wheeler too. So are Monteros and Touregs, doesn't mean I'm gonna go buy one. So we find then that the view on the matter from an 80 owner's perspective is as objective as any 55 guy's who doesn't normally drive an 80. Most are gonna be partial to what they have and wheel. BTW what is the going cost for a quality 4" lift on an 80? I have no idea. A SO on a Pig can be got for pretty friggin cheap depending on how much work you do. If you stay SU and go custom, you're out ~$1000, possibly a couple hundred more depending on what other doo-haa's you go with.
As far as body armor, this is the real creative difference between the classes, as nearly all 55 guys have custom home-built type bumpers, where all 80's I've ever seen either have stock or ARB. ARB has truly made it's fortune off of bumpers for 80 owners. So lastly I guess you would be right that an AWD would go better than 2wd. As far as I know that should be common sense. It still pretty much means 2wd against 4wd, right? And personally, I don't like auto's so I don't consider them an upgrade.

 

[lowtideride]

So what it comes down to is... If you wear pink panties wheel an 80, if you go "comando" wheel a 55.

 

[Fireman]

I myself have never wheeled an 80 series. This being said, I have seen a decently built 80 (DD113 Dearborn) wheel a little bit in his new gay, aids infected 80. I was impressed with it and the creature comforts that it has. I think that if a person has no or little regard for body damage, an 80 or a 55 will wheel to the same level. Driving my camo painted, sua, sb 400, 700r4, 35" mud tire shop Pig back and forth to work is fun, but in no way,shape or fashion comfortable. Would I get the same looks as I do now in a similarly equipped 80, probably not. Pigs are just too damn unique, ugly and cool. I trailer my Pig to all events that I go to so that if I break I can get home and back to work. If I wheeled an 80 I would probably wheel a hell of alot harder because in my opinion Pig sheet metal is so rare that I don't want to turn my old Piggy into a beater. Love 'em both and wish I had an 80 to go with the Pig. Maybe an 80 with one ton running gear and a 383 fi stroker... hmmm.

 

[RUSH55]

Well, I want to apologize for making posts that have nothing to do with this thread.
I think the topic is what would it take to get a 55 to outperform an 80. I don't think there was any kind of vs. thing meant by it. If you're talking an all around performance deal, on and off road, yeah I'd say a 55 would have to go thru some extensive mods, if say, we are talking about a stock on stock basis. First, I'd have to do some engine work that would come to a high performance, higher compression 2F with TBI and electronic ignition. Then A/C and PS. I don't care for auto's so I'd go 5 speed, either Toy or NV4500, with a stock early t-case, then a ARB in the back, one up front if a stock 80 comes with traction control in the front (which I don't know). As far as suspension, I'm not really convinced that coils flex more than leaves. They may be more cushy, but can't flex that much more (esp. stock). With 2 lockers, it wouldn't matter that much any ways. So I'd maybe go with a mild 2" lift, and maybe some kind of sway bar disconnect. Then the real work would start, interior. Some kind of fancy buckets and console, power windows and doorlocks, Cd player with disk changer, re-designed customized door panels and headliner, a rearview mirror with the little outside temp/direction LED display thing, digital guages. Then of course you'd have to have some fancy-shmancy bling ass aluminum rims with, you know, whatever tires you wanted- probably BFG's or something. Oh, and the perfect paint job of course, with the 15 layers of clear-coat.
I think at that point you'd have a 55 that was greater than or equal to an 80.
And as dreamy of a boulevard queen 55 that would be, with all the money in it, I probably wouldn't wheel it.
This should be a little more on track to the question posed by Alkaline747trio.
You see, 9am is past my bedtime, anytime after that my mind begins to wander.