The pushrod at the master?
FJ40 3speed to 4speed Clutch Problems... HELP! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Rainman
- Start date
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The pushrod at the master?
fjc-man
SILVER Star
So you already tried to bleed using a mityvac bleeder?
Rainman
Wondering what my next vehicle will be...
- Thread starter
- #25
I'm just out of ideas. IS it possible (heaven forbid) that the two cylinders are the wrong size? I tried to buy '74 cylinders. That should do it. It is after all, a 4 speed with a 3 speed t-case behind it. The engine has nothing to do with it. Neither does the t-case but it's just to confirm it's identical to the first year 4 speed setup.
A soft pedal should mean air in the system. I've bled many systems before and have never seen this problem before. I'll bet I've bled this one system more than 6 times. Only change in those times was the last bleed, I felt I could here air bubble for the first time. I could even feel it in the slave with my free hand. But none ever came out.
Again...
A soft pedal should mean air in the system. I've bled many systems before and have never seen this problem before. I'll bet I've bled this one system more than 6 times. Only change in those times was the last bleed, I felt I could here air bubble for the first time. I could even feel it in the slave with my free hand. But none ever came out.
Again...
What about the clutch fingers?
Is this a 3 finger clutch with the finger adjustment bolts?
Is it possible they are too far ‘In’ and not allowing enough travel of the throwout bearing, thus not disengaging the clutch?
That might explain how the clutch disengages with the ratchet strap but not the pedal. (But doesn’t explain only 1/2” slave movement).
Is this a 3 finger clutch with the finger adjustment bolts?
Is it possible they are too far ‘In’ and not allowing enough travel of the throwout bearing, thus not disengaging the clutch?
That might explain how the clutch disengages with the ratchet strap but not the pedal. (But doesn’t explain only 1/2” slave movement).
Doe a the pedal firm up if you pump it, like brakes would? If so, I think it definitely means air in the system.
Another idea, try a longer rod on the master. Set it so it's tight, almost to the point of starting to push the fork. Then see if the pedal feels firmer and can disengage the clutch.
Hate to say it, but maybe swapping out both, again, might be the next move.
Another idea, try a longer rod on the master. Set it so it's tight, almost to the point of starting to push the fork. Then see if the pedal feels firmer and can disengage the clutch.
Hate to say it, but maybe swapping out both, again, might be the next move.
Rainman
Wondering what my next vehicle will be...
- Thread starter
- #28
Fingers. It's a '76 4 speed setup in the bell housing. So no. Not 3 fingers.
Pumping over and over doesn't help. I thought that too.
Lying in bed a while ago it came to me. (Since I believe we've covered all other options.) If the slave isn't traveling far enough, maybe the master isn't giving it enough mass in the fluid. Kind of like bike gears, the master needs to shove more fluid than the slave to make it travel farther. Is there a year that has a larger volume master cylinder?
A. The fork can travel far enough to disengage the clutch.
B. I can't prove the slave can travel that far other than it worked before with the 3 speed setup. So it must have the capability.
C. If we threw more fluid at it, it SHOULD work.
D. This of course is assuming that after 7 or 8 times of bleeding the system, the air was gone AT LEAST once (it's not that hard to do) and that's not the problem.
Pumping over and over doesn't help. I thought that too.
Lying in bed a while ago it came to me. (Since I believe we've covered all other options.) If the slave isn't traveling far enough, maybe the master isn't giving it enough mass in the fluid. Kind of like bike gears, the master needs to shove more fluid than the slave to make it travel farther. Is there a year that has a larger volume master cylinder?
A. The fork can travel far enough to disengage the clutch.
B. I can't prove the slave can travel that far other than it worked before with the 3 speed setup. So it must have the capability.
C. If we threw more fluid at it, it SHOULD work.
D. This of course is assuming that after 7 or 8 times of bleeding the system, the air was gone AT LEAST once (it's not that hard to do) and that's not the problem.
Is the slave rod for the 3-sp the same length as the 4-sp?
I was curious and looked up part numbers for the master and slave for a 74 and a 78 and found different numbers. I don't know if it means anything at all, but maybe one of the gurus would know.
pbgbottle
Forum Lifer
The is an early slave and a later slave the earlier one as in 3 speed setup has a smaller bore. Than the 4 speed one which may give u more stroke.
Rainman
Wondering what my next vehicle will be...
- Thread starter
- #31
Actually no. I had to shorten the rod for it to work with the 4 speed because the 4 speed fork has a dog leg in it.
I purchased a 4 speed slave. And a 4 speed master. They are in there together for the second time. Then I tried the vacuum bleed again. I started this morning as if nothing had been tried and put both new parts in. That means every piece of the system from Master to fork is all new. I adjusted the pedal inside and then adjusted the slave rod. Both with as little clearance as I could get. Filled the system. Bled the system. Same.
Not one thing has changed in every combination.
This is the only think preventing me from driving. I've asked everyone I know that's has vehicle sense. I've done this process before in at least a handful of Cruisers with success every time. I have no clue what's going on here. None.
I purchased a 4 speed slave. And a 4 speed master. They are in there together for the second time. Then I tried the vacuum bleed again. I started this morning as if nothing had been tried and put both new parts in. That means every piece of the system from Master to fork is all new. I adjusted the pedal inside and then adjusted the slave rod. Both with as little clearance as I could get. Filled the system. Bled the system. Same.
Not one thing has changed in every combination.
This is the only think preventing me from driving. I've asked everyone I know that's has vehicle sense. I've done this process before in at least a handful of Cruisers with success every time. I have no clue what's going on here. None.
pbgbottle
Forum Lifer
Is your pedal hitting the floor to soon
raise pedal height if u still can ???
raise pedal height if u still can ???
Try a longer rod.
I had this exact issue on an old Willy's jeep with a motor swap.
We ended up needing a much longer rod than we thought would originally fit.
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Back off the adjustment between the pedal and master. This will allow more piston travel therefore pushing more fluid.
Maybe.
Maybe.
Rainman
Wondering what my next vehicle will be...
- Thread starter
- #35
I really appreciate all the suggestions but they all have been covered.
I can't adjust the pedal any more.
I can't put a longer rod in the slave, there isn't any room.
I talked this afternoon to one of the most intelligent auto guys on the planet. He was good friends with my old mentor that passed away about a year and a half ago. He was chief racing engineer for Mercury Racing in the 50s and 60s. He mentioned most of what you all have that I did already know. He then added something to the equation. Pressure bleed the system. AHA!! SO I got a pressure sprayer and rigged up a perfect system that worked like a champ! Took about 3 or 4 seconds to fill the system.
Same.
I can't adjust the pedal any more.
I can't put a longer rod in the slave, there isn't any room.
I talked this afternoon to one of the most intelligent auto guys on the planet. He was good friends with my old mentor that passed away about a year and a half ago. He was chief racing engineer for Mercury Racing in the 50s and 60s. He mentioned most of what you all have that I did already know. He then added something to the equation. Pressure bleed the system. AHA!! SO I got a pressure sprayer and rigged up a perfect system that worked like a champ! Took about 3 or 4 seconds to fill the system.
Same.
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Hope it works out for you!
Just because something is new doesn’t mean it works, do you have junk in the lines, is the hose collapsed, is the banjo fitting clear? You are going to have to go through every piece. Or go steal the entire setup from a working truck and see what happens.
Which fork are you using? I assume the cast fork with the large 4-sp throw-out bearing and cast bearing carrier...
I have also had issue with the fork hitting the bell housing (where it passes through the side) preventing the clutch from working correctly.
Only other thing to check is the pivot ball. Is it the right one? Is it worn out?
Good luck!
Nick
I have also had issue with the fork hitting the bell housing (where it passes through the side) preventing the clutch from working correctly.
Only other thing to check is the pivot ball. Is it the right one? Is it worn out?
Good luck!
Nick
I think you have the wrong master cylinder. It looks more like a 3 spd set up. They put 3 spds in for a lot longer than 74. Look at a 76 up and see if the bore is different, or put in a 3 spd slave cylinder. Hope something works for you.
I know with brake master cylinders you have to bench bleed them before installation, did you bench bleed the clutch master?
See my last post in this thread.
See my last post in this thread.
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