Fixing a leaky spa

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Mace

Mace

rock scientist..
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Looks like the spa I just installed is leaking.
It is an above ground Tiger River spa and is probably about 10 years or so old. Standard redwood construction on the outside and entirely filled with that foam crap on the inside.

The leak is only readily apparent when I turn the jets on. Then the boards on one side get wet (obviously). It does not appear to leak much when the jets are not turned on. Which makes me believe that it is a pipe with a small hole in it. Turn the jets on and the pressure increases the leak significantly.

I have seen the fix-a-leak things for spas, but they seem to be more applicable to suction end leaks and issues around the jets. It is looking like my best option is to sharpen a bigf spoon and begin carving out the foam from the leaking side of the spa.

Before I go all hog is it worth trying out the snake oil fix-a-leak stuff??

I really am not looking forward to draining the spa and playing archeaologist..

Any good ideas on removing that foam crap quickly and painlessly if I do have to pull it???
 
The foam will allow the leak to appear where it wants it to. I fixed leaks on our old Cal Spa so many times I finally gave up and gave it away when the heating element went out. I have yet to find anything that will fix it other than tearing into it and replacing the worn/torn/hardened gaskets and cracked hoses. Great Stuff can be used to reseal the foam area.

Your jet tips should be removable from the inside. You can remove the jet and see if the flat O ring is torn or if the pipe is broke, etc.
 
Again, on How It's Made, I saw them making spas. My jaw fell when I saw that absolute nightmare of hoses and fittings and them completlely encase that whole ratnest in spray foam.
My exact thought at that time was "can you possibly imagine if you had a leak?"

Good luck with that project, hopefully it's an easy fix .
 
Don't use any of the Snake Oil! I design spas plumbing for a living and have tested a ton of different quick fixes for plumbing leaks and none will work long enough to be worth the effort. They can also do a lot of damage to pumps, heaters and jets. The great thing about fully foam filled spas are that they can be very energy efficient. The drawback is what you have found. FYI, we fully foam fill because it has tested time and time again to be more efficient at retaining your water's heat. There are a lot of companies out there that spray an inch or two of foam on the shell and then put a radiant barrier on the cabinet. It makes finding leaks easier, but the foam holds the plumbing together as well. And you don't see too many homes or LEED buidlings built this way. They also try to sell you on the notion that the heat coming off thier pumps heats the water. Don't get me started about selling the fact that the pumps being used are that inefficient that they put off that much heat.

Anyway, Your leak is a hose joint leak as opposed to a set/jet body leak. They are a real bugger to fix. You basically need to start digging, following the wet foam until you find the leaking joint. Unfortunitely like has already been mentioned, most spas look more like "spagetti" with all the crazy plumbing. Be careful pulling too hard on the PVC hoses as 10 yrs of chemical use can make them harden and increase the chances of cracking or pulling additional glue joints loose. I'd try to find the leak with the water still in the spa. You could turn the pump on as your digging and trace the flow. Sorry, not the answer you wanted to hear. You might be able to contact Tiger River and narrow down the search a little.
 
Joe_E said:
Again, on How It's Made, I saw them making spas. My jaw fell when I saw that absolute nightmare of hoses and fittings and them completlely encase that whole ratnest in spray foam.
My exact thought at that time was "can you possibly imagine if you had a leak?"

Good luck with that project, hopefully it's an easy fix .
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to sell anything. I don't normally mention my employer in order to avoid conflict, but check out www.bullfrogspas.com. I've been in the spa industry for a while and it kills me the nightmare of plumbing that most companies use on spas. Not only are they a nightmare to plumb, but the way they are plumbed reduced water flow by up to 30% of what the pumps can put out in a well plumbed spa. Plumbing design and testing is what I do every day. Let's face it, any spa company that says they don't occasionally have leaks is lying. Spa are big bowls of hot water with holes drilled in it. Not all spas are made the same. Leak potential is drastically reduced with Jetpak technology because most of the plumbing is within the water and there are drastically less shell penetrations. Again, not trying to sell anything. I just though it would be interesting for people to see a different side of the spa industry.
 
lol..

Love the "Body Wand" at Bulfrog spas ;)


I turned the spa on again and lo and behold, I could not make it leak.

I do have some cracks in the shell on the top of the outer lip. What I am now thinking happened is that the cover was on it. When I turned the Jets on, it bubbled enough to get a considerable amount of water on the cover. That water was able to wick into the crack and down the foam area.

Or at least that is the theory I am working on right now..
 
You have been given some good advice here, I am less than a year in a spa company and leaks are no fun for the customer.

I was at a training session in California at the Jacuzzi factory and we spent a good bit of time on leaks.

We had boys from all over the USA and I remember the guys from Arizona telling me they will not even look at tubs over 8 years old?

Anyhow good luck with the tub, I use mine twice a day and after a long day at the ski hill with the kids and wife.


Rob:popcorn:
 
Yep, it's interesting that spa's have a shelf life. I figured that they would last longer than 10 years. Hell, my "new" truck is older than that.

I ordered a bottle of the stop-a-leak stuff. I suppose I'll hold off to see if the leak happens again to see if I'm going to use it.

Sounds like it may do more harm than good. But I have seen a LOT of arguing evidence on both sides.

Donno, Tiger River Spas don't like them because they are temporary. But other than that they don't seem concerned with the products..

Donno

:meh:
 
I talked to the spa manu.

They reccomended removing the foam with a ice cream scoop. And they did not reccomend the seal-a-leak stuff because "It was not a permanent fix".

Hell, for $12.00 If it fixes the spa for a year I am a happy camper. I'll spend more on Bromine in that time period!

But for now, if I can't make it leak again. I am going to ignore it!
 
I was just wondering cause alot of spas at one time or could still be was built in Renick WV
Mace said:
I talked to the spa manu.

They reccomended removing the foam with a ice cream scoop. And they did not reccomend the seal-a-leak stuff because "It was not a permanent fix".

Hell, for $12.00 If it fixes the spa for a year I am a happy camper. I'll spend more on Bromine in that time period!

But for now, if I can't make it leak again. I am going to ignore it!
Click to expand...
 
Radd Cruisers said:
You have been given some good advice here, I am less than a year in a spa company and leaks are no fun for the customer.

I was at a training session in California at the Jacuzzi factory and we spent a good bit of time on leaks.

We had boys from all over the USA and I remember the guys from Arizona telling me they will not even look at tubs over 8 years old?

Anyhow good luck with the tub, I use mine twice a day and after a long day at the ski hill with the kids and wife.


Rob:popcorn:
Click to expand...

Rob-Finally another spa guy. We should talk shop. It's not fun being the only one in the tub.;) Do you work at Jacuzzi or at a local Dealer. They make a great product.


Mace-Ice cream Scoop? Really? That's a good one I'll bring up with our tech guys. I work in Product Development so maybe I'll patent an Ice Cream scoop for foam removal. Keep checking your water levels. Normally your control system will turn your pumps on high for a few minutes everydayto make wure everything gets fresh chemical run through it. Being that old, I don't know. I'll talk to my techs and see what they used to use to fill and repair cracks. I believe it is some sort of epoxy, but I'll make sure to steer you to something that is chemical resistant. I'd fill the cracks so the water can't leak through them.

The lifespan of a spa really depends on how well it was taken care of. I've seen spas that are less than 1 year old that are trashed. We had a guy throw 12 Simming pool Chorine pucks into the bottom of his spa. Chlorine levels were off the charts. Unfortunitley most people have no clue how to take care of thier water. High Chloringe or Bromine, heavy use of Peroxides, bad PH levels and dozens of Snake oil water cleaners can eat plastic and make it very hard. Rob's comment on 8 year old spas is very accurate. A once flexible PVC hose subjected to poor water chemistry for 8 years can make one repair into 10 repairs.

And lastly the "Body Wand" is classic. Some people love it and we won't get into why.
 
tltaylor22 said:
Mace-Ice cream Scoop? Really? That's a good one I'll bring up with our tech guys. I work in Product Development so maybe I'll patent an Ice Cream scoop for foam removal. Keep checking your water levels. Normally your control system will turn your pumps on high for a few minutes everydayto make wure everything gets fresh chemical run through it. Being that old, I don't know. I'll talk to my techs and see what they used to use to fill and repair cracks. I believe it is some sort of epoxy, but I'll make sure to steer you to something that is chemical resistant. I'd fill the cracks so the water can't leak through them.

The lifespan of a spa really depends on how well it was taken care of. I've seen spas that are less than 1 year old that are trashed. We had a guy throw 12 Simming pool Chorine pucks into the bottom of his spa. Chlorine levels were off the charts. Unfortunitley most people have no clue how to take care of thier water. High Chloringe or Bromine, heavy use of Peroxides, bad PH levels and dozens of Snake oil water cleaners can eat plastic and make it very hard. Rob's comment on 8 year old spas is very accurate. A once flexible PVC hose subjected to poor water chemistry for 8 years can make one repair into 10 repairs.

And lastly the "Body Wand" is classic. Some people love it and we won't get into why.
Click to expand...


Yeppers Ice cream scoop. The spa is old enough that it only turns the jets on when I push a button ;)


My father owned the spa for the last 8 years or so. So it has been treated fairly well as far as I know. The clear plastic hoses were stiff, but not too bad considering the age and the temp (40*). Honestly, it looks pretty good to me.

Actually, you know of a good place I could go to get a 220 sub panel? my spa is convertable. It orriginaly came with one, but the installer took it with him :mad:
 
fj40charles said:
Rob,

I hear they make a product called, Depends. Supposed to help adults with leaking problems...

Charles
Click to expand...

Hardy har har Charles......

:beer:
 
tltaylor22 said:
Rob-Finally another spa guy. We should talk shop. It's not fun being the only one in the tub.;) Do you work at Jacuzzi or at a local Dealer. They make a great product.


I am a Jacuzzi Tech and work on all tubs, I was thrown into the fire and told to run the department with no expierence.

Been fun, the curve on tubs is pretty easy compared to building cruisers.

Water care is number one and the biggest killer of plumbing and covers.

I like your advice, good to see another tech also.

Rob
Click to expand...
 
Mace said:
Actually, you know of a good place I could go to get a 220 sub panel? my spa is convertable. It orriginaly came with one, but the installer took it with him :mad:
Click to expand...

We leave the Subpanel up to the electrical installer, but I have bought mine at Home depot or a local electrical supply distributor. They were about $75 last time I checked which was about the same price as just the 220 50amp GFCI breaker itself. Do you just need a 220 single breaker sub or a multiple breaker sub. Our spas use a control system the uses a single 50amp supply. I owned a Hotsprings that required two seperate breaker supplies. Newer systems can also be set up to drop the heater when the pumps are running on high so that your total amp draw is lower. As long as younr not out there for an hour at a time it saves a little power in your box.
 
It's a double breaker system. 20 amp 110V and 30 amp 220V

I'll probably just build one. Sigh..
 
WEll, I threw some of the Fix-a-leak stuff in the spa.

Whammo, no more leak.

For $12.00, I'll buy a case and put another bottle in every time I drain the damn thing if necessary. God it's nice to have it back :D
 
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