Feels Like a Death in the Family

[scottcb]

Here is the short version of a long story - not sure what to do with my 85.

Background on truck - Got it for free 2 years ago from a family friend. 102,000 original miles, good condition. I have done minimal work (fuel pump, some minor elec., etc.) and put about 1,800 miles on it in 2 years.

Took my 85 to a Toyota Specialist in Phoenix to install a new EGR pipe for me (the studs were broken on the manifold so he had to remove the old studs and get the new ones in - something I could not tackle). I also had him do a valve adjustment since I assumed the POs had never done it - valves were pretty clacky. He called to tell me that once they installed the new EGR pipe and did the valve adjust that it was a lot quieter, but they detected a pretty loud and consistent clang/clunk from the bottom of the motor. In his estimate it was a rod bearing and he was concerned about running it and doing damage or more damage. Turns out bearings were not bad, crankshaft looked good, but the cylinder walls (all 6) had significant scoring. He said it looked like it had run low on oil, no oil, or got overheated multiple times. And that noise, turned out that it is the timing gears. Oh and to top it off they found that the intake manifold gasket has a pretty good leak - that actually explains some other things.

So I feel like someone just called to tell me a family member had died (life support best case). The mechanic is a good guy, not screwing me and actually feels horrible and is charging me for parts only. I know several Toyota owners who use him, including family, and they all like him.

So what now? New engine, rebuild the existing, sell it? I have no idea what it would cost to rebuild it. I imagine it is cheaper to rebuild then buy new. I'm sure some will recommend ditching the 2f and going with something else. I would love some opinions. I have very little mechanical skills, however thanks to this forum I have learned a ton and done a lot of smaller fixes myself, or at least diagnosed the problem. Thanks to all.

 

[tonkota]

bury it in the back yard with the family pet?

It doesn't sound that bad to me. Clean up the cylinders, re-ring and replace gaskets, replace timing gears and put in a performance camshaft from Delta while you are there....

Right after we bought our 62 we spun a rod bearing which ended up cracking the crank. I'm super glad that we kept the wagon. We use it a lot for family outings.

 

[Spike Strip]

Well, since you said your mech skilz are lacking, I'm presuming you're not up to a motor tear-down.

You're looking at $4K-7K to have that professionally done. Even finding a used 2F in usable condition and having it swapped in is gonna be a few grand. If you're not willing or wanting or able to put the $ into it, prolly time to sell or part out.

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

Find some friends in the area that have tackled this, get a good 2F from this board for cheap, throw an engine-swap-beer-barbecue and you are good to go after a weekend
A 2F swap is so easy, it is actually fun.

cheers,
Jan

 

[Spike Strip]

" ...fun..."

??

Man, you guys musta drunk waaay too many when you did yours if that was your idea of .

 

[Unoman]

I'm about to start this very same process tonight. The tear down looks pretty straight forward and you can save yourself some money. I'd invite some folks over and get after it. My 2F lost cylinder #1 and it is cheaper to rebuild unless you can find a decent running 2F to swap in.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Please post the compression in each cylinder.

Does it use oil? Is the oil pressure OK?

Did you take it to someone who knows Land Cruisers? If not, be very very suspicious.

Does it run OK other than noise? It seems unusual that the cylinders would be this badly damaged with no damage to the crank and bearings.

If you want the honest truth, I would just continue to run it. I certainly would not give up on it yet. There are way too many stories of mechanics writing ooff a 2F only to have it run for years afterwards.

The bang/clunk could just be an improperly installed fuel pump-ie the spacer was forgotten.

Don't be too quick to write it off.

 

[scottcb]

Thanks Drew. My plan is to pick it up, drive and watch it for awhile and diagnose what I can. I don't think the fuel pump is the issue. I installed it a year or so ago with the spacer and it has been running great. Oil usage has been fine, of course I have some small leaks, but it does not burn through oil. oil pressure is fine, stable on the needle. How do you check the compression? How can I tell if a cylinder is not firing?

 

[84cruzer]

I will sell you my old 2F Cheap!! 147000 Miles ran good when it was still in the ol' 60 now i have a 5.3L

 

[mcmain0121]

Keep it! Don't sell it... It's pretty obvious you have a good amount of attachment to the 'ol rig. If it were me, I would re-ring it, new gaskets, timing gears, etc. If you sell it, you will surely regret it.
Good luck with it man!

 

[KayakPanic]

Please post the compression in each cylinder.

Does it use oil? Is the oil pressure OK?

Did you take it to someone who knows Land Cruisers? If not, be very very suspicious.

Does it run OK other than noise? It seems unusual that the cylinders would be this badly damaged with no damage to the crank and bearings.

If you want the honest truth, I would just continue to run it. I certainly would not give up on it yet. There are way too many stories of mechanics writing ooff a 2F only to have it run for years afterwards.

The bang/clunk could just be an improperly installed fuel pump-ie the spacer was forgotten.

ScottCB- ummm death in the family???

your fears are consuming you...sounds to me like you have a baby that needs to be burped, or maybe a horse with a limp, but DEATH?

why don't you just drive it and not worry about it until something actually goes wrong with it. many mechanics capitalize on fear, and I don't care who it is/who goes to them/how nice they are/etc...

I once thought my FJ40 had a motor on its way out until I learned about the timing gears as opposed to a chain or belt, and the mechanical fuel pump that sounds like a Rapala ShadRap!

=======================================================================

check compression on cylinders and report back here.

I know of someone who bought a '72 FJ40 new, and still drives it, with 290,000+ miles on the F without ANY rebuilds, so I almost would seriously doubt some of the claims being made about the cylinders if nothing else has given you any trouble. any that one had the old oil filter and pump that was alot less efficient than the 2F.

Don't be too quick to write it off.

 

[scottcb]

KayakPanic,

Thanks for the reassuring words. After sleeping on it and my wife telling me to NOT jump to conclusions, I feel a bit better today. I pick it up in a few hours and hope to have more info. The intake manifold leak is something I will look more into on my own as I think that is why I have had some other issues.

How can I test the compression in the cylinders? Remember I'm a rookie.

Thanks all.

 

[brian]

so how did it run BEFORE you took it in?
sounds like you have been paying this guy to chase a noise around.

 

[fj60seeker]

all i goota say is dont sell. I love my cruiser, my first after many years of waiting, and I will run it till it seizes, then rebuild it. Good luck!

 

[scottcb]

Update on "Death"

I thought it was time for an update on the rig.

The noise that the mechanic thought was coming from the rod bearings...turns out it was not the rod bearings, but it is the timing gears. I am kicking myself because before he changed out the bearings, I did some research on the forum and a couple people mentioned that the noise from worn timing gears and the rod bearings is easily confused. I wish I had told him that - lesson learned, always trust the members here. The good news, the mechanic felt bad that he had misdiagnosed the "noise" and did not charge me labor for all the extra work, just parts for the bearings, oil and pan gasket. I was impressed, nice to get that kind of service these days.

So I have no idea where to start with the timing gears, but I have left it as is for now. I would love to hear from anyone who has changed these out or who is driving on worn or noisy gears.

The mechanic also helped diagnose a vacuum leak I have been trying to chase down. I've gone from the EGR all around with no luck. Turns out I've got an intake manifold leak. I was able to spray some carb cleaner on the top left (toward of truck) and the engine revs up. It runs OK, but I'm losing power in at least 1 cylinder, probably 2. That was free of charge. But now I'm wondering is there anyway to seal the gasket without replacing it - just for the short term?

A/C works amazing now, blowing at 42.

Rigs running better than ever, regardless of the issues mentioned above. I'll have to move on to those.

The bad news, got pulled over and got a ticket on the way home. Just more money gone attributed to the Cruiser.

 

[Off Duty]

...The bad news, got pulled over and got a ticket on the way home. Just more money gone attributed to the Cruiser.

Too slow in the fast lane?

Sorry about the ticket, but great to hear the crusher is staying in the family

Keep us posted on how things turn out?

 

[Benjaman]

Here is the short version of a long story - not sure what to do with my 85.

Background on truck - Got it for free 2 years ago from a family friend. 102,000 original miles, good condition. I have done minimal work (fuel pump, some minor elec., etc.) and put about 1,800 miles on it in 2 years.

Took my 85 to a Toyota Specialist in Phoenix to install a new EGR pipe for me (the studs were broken on the manifold so he had to remove the old studs and get the new ones in - something I could not tackle). I also had him do a valve adjustment since I assumed the POs had never done it - valves were pretty clacky. He called to tell me that once they installed the new EGR pipe and did the valve adjust that it was a lot quieter, but they detected a pretty loud and consistent clang/clunk from the bottom of the motor. In his estimate it was a rod bearing and he was concerned about running it and doing damage or more damage. Turns out bearings were not bad, crankshaft looked good, but the cylinder walls (all 6) had significant scoring. He said it looked like it had run low on oil, no oil, or got overheated multiple times. And that noise, turned out that it is the timing gears. Oh and to top it off they found that the intake manifold gasket has a pretty good leak - that actually explains some other things.

So I feel like someone just called to tell me a family member had died (life support best case). The mechanic is a good guy, not screwing me and actually feels horrible and is charging me for parts only. I know several Toyota owners who use him, including family, and they all like him.

So what now? New engine, rebuild the existing, sell it? I have no idea what it would cost to rebuild it. I imagine it is cheaper to rebuild then buy new. I'm sure some will recommend ditching the 2f and going with something else. I would love some opinions. I have very little mechanical skills, however thanks to this forum I have learned a ton and done a lot of smaller fixes myself, or at least diagnosed the problem. Thanks to all.

If the 60 engines are anything like my 22R engine, they can do a ring and valve job(if a hone will remove the scoring). If not, nows your chance to build up a nice motor.

 

[s1r_william]

2f

if you ever make it up my way i have a 2f neads some work on the head i wont need it as i'm throwing my 3b from my old DD into the new fj60 you can have it for very reasonable plus pick through the rest of the spares from frankencruiser who knows i might just have that part you were looking for
Bill and Frankencruiser