FCAW vs MIG Welding for newbie Spare Tire Carrier? (1 Viewer)

[FishNinJay]

I'm going to learn to weld, so that I can build a rear bumper mounted swing-out Spare Tire Carrier very similar to this:

My plan is to use 2"x2" 1/4-inch like in the pics. This needs to be sturdy, as it will be supported entirely by the bumper-mounted heavy duty hinge on the passenger side, and Grade 8 bolts into the frame crossmember beneath. This needs to support a pretty big spare, 33x12.5x15, Toyo Open Country MTs. I'll probably also add a cooler carrier.

My small garage only has 120AC power (as far as I know..)

I was originally thinking of buying the Lincoln Electric Power MIG 140C Welder, but I saw this Chicago Electric 90Amp Flux Wire welder at Harbor Freight Tools for $119.99
Flux Wire Welder - 90 Amp <~~ link, click it!

THIS WEEKEND, for Father's Day, it's on sale for $89.99

Yeah, I know.. Harbor Freight = cr@p .. right?

I'm reading that with better flux wire, like the Lincoln Innershield, there is much less spatter and cleaner welds with the HFT 90A flux wire welder. What do you think?

I've been researching, and it seems like FCAW welds thicker metal, but may have some porosity and impurities? I don't care if it looks ugly. MIG looks nicer, less impurities, but can only weld thinner metals (Why is this? Can't you lay down additional layers?) Some say FCAW is only for emergencies, field work, etc. Others say most buildings steel structures are done with FCAW so it must be hella strong, right? Am I overthinking this?

My question..

Given my intended use, weight of my spare+bumper, and 1/4-inch square tube I plan to use, is FCAW flux wire welding strong enough? I can't have this thing snap off on the highway and land in some lawyer's Porsche convertible.

Or, should I go with gas MIG welding?

I have a few other future welding projects in mind.. including cutting a fold-n-tumble rear bench in half to widen it to custom fit into my FJ40. I think I only need to make 4 cuts into pretty narrow square tube frame rails. Weld in angle iron extensions. I have a decent inexpensive re-upholster place to restuff and re-upholster it. I'm less concerned about weld looks or weld strength here.

Any advice for the -welder?

 

[kurtnkegger]

There's nothing wrong with the flux core wire. I would buy the Lincoln welder over the HF welder. Lincoln makes a good machine.

What I would do, is practice welding before you tackle the tire carrier. There is a lot of force put on your welds from a tire shaking around...New welders tend to move along too fast, and don't achieve good penetration on the welds. That could be disasterous if you are not careful.

 

[FishNinJay]

Thx.. yes, I plan on practicing. This bumper idea has been bouncing around in my head for at least the last year or more. I'm reading the Lincoln specs.. it looks like MIG welding with solid core can only weld up to 10Ga, Single Pass.. but the flux can go up to 1/4"

What's Multi-Pass? Just adding another layer of weld? Why wouldn't MIG be good for thicker welds, if you can just keep adding layers?

Confused..

 

[Cdaniel]

Welded lots of beginner projects and more with a Lincoln flux core 120v unit. Still have it. Graduated to a big Miller later on. When it came to buying a welder I'll pass the advice my buggy fab buddy gave me: Buy as much welder as you can afford. You won't be sorry.

Get the Lincoln if it's in your budget. Look at Hobart too. Another friend got a decent flux core unit from Eastwood too.

edit: also, my Lincoln unit had less penetration for thicker metal when I converted it to MIG from flux core. I can't say I understand why.

That's one reason I moved to a bigger one.

 

[crwlntoy]

You would be supprised what you can weld with a 120v welder with flux core wire. I use .035 wire and can weld anything from 20ga. sheet metal to 1/4" plate with a single pass with my Lincoln sp135. It is all about wire speed, amps and the speed you travel across the weld. Also with flux core you can weld outside and not worry about the wind. Personally I would not waist my money on a HF welder, I would save my money and buy a lincoln, hobart or a miller. Also get a machine you can fine tune amps and wire speed, not one that clicks between settings.

 

[Pin_Head]

The machine or process isn't that important, but skill is. A good welder could make good welds with any machine, while a good machine won't make a bad welder good. Take a welding class, like the one they have at night at OCC. They also teach you about joint design and testing welds to make sure they are good. The rule of thumb is that if a weld failure could injure or kill someone, get an expert to weld it. A spare tire carrier would fall into that category. You could tack weld all the pieces and take it to a pro who would weld it up for his minimum charge or whatever his hourly rate is.

 

[highlandcruzer]

Figured I'd chime in since you commented on my welds in my thread. I'm running the Lincoln 140. Didn't go bigger for the same power supply reasons as you. It's what I've learned to weld with. I've been very happy with it. Couldn't have been much easier to learn with. I wish I wasn't intimidated by the idea of welding for so long prior. It's opened up worlds of project possibilities. Did some reading, watched the video it came with, and read the "learning to weld" booklet it came with. I started with the flux core wire it came with. Practiced on some scrap, and I was laying down stacks of dimes in no time.

Learn the fundamentals and you can lay down some nice welds with flux core. If you've got good penetration, a grinder will clean up anything that's not pretty. Go for it. You'll be glad you did.

One thing that I'd recommend, that I wish I'd done sooner, is get a good auto darkening helmet to start with. Man, It makes things soo much easier!

 

[lcwizard]

get a bigger welder. They last forever , longer than the average marriage anyway and at a lower cost.
A 250 amp welder will run 3/8' with ease. Under 175 amps are great for body work, up to 3/16".
Flux core will get more penetration at a given power setting. You can cheat the average with
MIG by varying your gas mixture. Adding 5% oxygen to your gas mix increases penetration .
Your local welding supply house can advise you on this

 

[FishNinJay]

The machine or process isn't that important, but skill is. A good welder could make good welds with any machine, while a good machine won't make a bad welder good. Take a welding class, like the one they have at night at OCC. They also teach you about joint design and testing welds to make sure they are good. The rule of thumb is that if a weld failure could injure or kill someone, get an expert to weld it. A spare tire carrier would fall into that category. You could tack weld all the pieces and take it to a pro who would weld it up for his minimum charge or whatever his hourly rate is.

@Mr Pin -
What's OCC? I was looking for a nearby class.. and found Cerritos College, but the website was a bit confusing. So I went to YouTube U... and there was a lot of stuff. (I also learned how to do my own appendectomy surgery). Yeah, I'm going to go slow on this project, and practice.. to make sure I don't make something dangerous. That's why I'm looking at every design on the web (and here on Mud), and planning on over-engineering the best parts of each design I find.

That's why I wanted to go thicker, with 1/4", and 2x2 instead of smaller square tube.

My weeks are pretty jam-packed with work and kids, so I'm not sure how easy it's going to be to fit in a class.

@Highlandcruzer - yep, auto-darken helmet is near the top of my shopping list!

@lcwizard - I don't think I can do any better than the Lincoln 140c on my house current. =(

Thanks guys!

 

[fhawk5]

I'm going to learn to weld, so that I can build a rear bumper mounted swing-out Spare Tire Carrier very similar to this:

My plan is to use 2"x2" 1/4-inch like in the pics. This needs to be sturdy, as it will be supported entirely by the bumper-mounted heavy duty hinge on the passenger side, and Grade 8 bolts into the frame crossmember beneath. This needs to support a pretty big spare, 33x12.5x15, Toyo Open Country MTs. I'll probably also add a cooler carrier.

My small garage only has 120AC power (as far as I know..)

I was originally thinking of buying the Lincoln Electric Power MIG 140C Welder, but I saw this Chicago Electric 90Amp Flux Wire welder at Harbor Freight Tools for $119.99
Flux Wire Welder - 90 Amp <~~ link, click it!

THIS WEEKEND, for Father's Day, it's on sale for $89.99

Yeah, I know.. Harbor Freight = cr@p .. right?

I'm reading that with better flux wire, like the Lincoln Innershield, there is much less spatter and cleaner welds with the HFT 90A flux wire welder. What do you think?

I've been researching, and it seems like FCAW welds thicker metal, but may have some porosity and impurities? I don't care if it looks ugly. MIG looks nicer, less impurities, but can only weld thinner metals (Why is this? Can't you lay down additional layers?) Some say FCAW is only for emergencies, field work, etc. Others say most buildings steel structures are done with FCAW so it must be hella strong, right? Am I overthinking this?

My question..

Given my intended use, weight of my spare+bumper, and 1/4-inch square tube I plan to use, is FCAW flux wire welding strong enough? I can't have this thing snap off on the highway and land in some lawyer's Porsche convertible.

Or, should I go with gas MIG welding?

I have a few other future welding projects in mind.. including cutting a fold-n-tumble rear bench in half to widen it to custom fit into my FJ40. I think I only need to make 4 cuts into pretty narrow square tube frame rails. Weld in angle iron extensions. I have a decent inexpensive re-upholster place to restuff and re-upholster it. I'm less concerned about weld looks or weld strength here.

Any advice for the -welder?

Of course the Lincoln is ok but the HF is great for the price. It will get the job done. Read the reviews on the HF website. If you are on a budget the price is right. Seems a lot of people want a major investment for basic issues.

 

[cmiller114]

HP Books, Welders Handbook by Richard Finch is available at many welding supply houses and online. Very helpful.
I started with a Lincoln 140 PRO MIG for the same reason....110v. It is a great little machine and I still use it, but you're talking 2x2 with 1/4 walls for a bumper carrying a heavy spare=IMHO a bigger machine.
I bought some stock and a chop saw, tacked my project together and had a local "moomlighting" welder finish it. I got his name from the counter guy at the local welding supply. Watching him and asking a couple of hundred questions and then having him watch me and correct my errors taught me more than hours of books and Utube ever could. You just can't see a puddle in a book or video.
I then bought a Lincoln 225AC "buzz box" and made a 30' foot 10 AWG extension cord from my dryer outlet to the garage....now we're welding. I am already planning to hard wire 220v to the garage and will probably end up with a big MIG and a plasma cutter. It's like buying a FJ40....there is always something bigger, better and the list goes on.

 

[Pin_Head]

OCC is Orange Coast College in Costa Mesa. You don't have to pass the class or even take all of it to learn how to make proper welds and more importantly how to test them to know they are good. Practicing isn't necessarily a good thing if what you are practicing is wrong. Some of the stuff you can find in a welding text book, but it is really nice to have someone who knows looking at your shoulder and showing you.

 

[FishNinJay]

OCC is Orange Coast College in Costa Mesa. You don't have to pass the class or even take all of it to learn how to make proper welds and more importantly how to test them to know they are good. Practicing isn't necessarily a good thing if what you are practicing is wrong. Some of the stuff you can find in a welding text book, but it is really nice to have someone who knows looking at your shoulder and showing you.

AH.. I thought Orange Community College.
Check this out!? Welder in Hemet will TEACH welding in 2-hrs, incl all materials, $50
WELD!! One on One training -- $50 Two Hours or More

Seems like a smokin' deal (pun intended..)
I'd prob spend more than that on scrap practice metal alone!
Hope it's not a scam...

DUH.... I never knew that dryers were 220v

 

[cjgoode]

Get a good welder, I have a lincoln 120V. I love it, it will weld 1/4 with flux cord with no problems. I do two passes as that is what is recommended with 1/4 and a 120v welder. I have 4 220v outlets in my garage (a good PO of my house) but I went with the 120v for more portability outside my garage and I knew I would not likely weld over 1/4 steel. Been extremely happy with it. I picked mine up at Lowes. I got the top of the line 120v one, that also supports use of gas shielding, but I have only used flux cord with it. Nice to have the option without buying a new welder, and when I finally play with Aluminum welding I will need the gas hookup.

 

[chevurai]

There is a lot of inexpensive used equipment out there. all of the name brand welders are good. I would not hesitate to buy a used machine. Some of my welders are more than ten years old, that makes them used, and they work great. The machines either work or they don't, so don't avoid one because it's used.
A 120v MIG machine with a gas solenoid is very versatile and perhaps the easiest to learn to use. Practice on projects that would not cause injury if the welds fail.
The welder that I use daily is a Lincoln 140c with CO2 gas. It is a 120v unit and the gas is cheap. The bottle works of of liquid CO2 and not just pressurized gas. The gas lasts a long time.

 

[Pin_Head]

Two hours would be a good start, but it won' t make you an expert.
You learn a lot of other useful stuff in welding class, like the difference between static and dynamically loaded structures and things that you should not be welding on if you are not a certified welder. Imperfections in statically loaded structures aren't as big of a problem as in dynamically loaded structures where the vibration can lead to cracking and failure.

Get a certified expert to make critical welds and then you can learn from him by watching and talking to him. There are lots of things on your cruiser that would not be critical welds, but anything that could kill or injure someone are. I took a welding course at a local CC and I would think twice before making the welds myself. I had a certified welder weld my bumper to frame mounts, but I welded on some brackets and small stuff myself.

 

[FishNinJay]

Imperfections in statically loaded structures aren't as big of a problem as in dynamically loaded structures where the vibration can lead to cracking and failure.

You just don't want to get caught behind me on the 405!!

Would it be ok to tack weld everything together with FLUX wire?
And then have a certified welder come and finish it off correctly? The flux'd tack welds won't matter, right?

 

[lcwizard]

do welding classes teach you to identify statically and dynamically loaded welders?
I think I get more statically loaded on cheap beer while dynamically loaded on good micro-brews.

 

[byrd_hntr]

Many welders these days work on 120 and 230, like the Miller 211. This way you can start with the lighter stuff and when its time to make the big welds you at least have the welder to do it. I'm saving my pennies for this welder right now.

I second taking a class though, the knowledge and the practice you get there will be worth its weight in gold when its time to strike an arc.

 

[Pin_Head]

do welding classes teach you to identify statically and dynamically loaded welders?
I think I get more statically loaded on cheap beer while dynamically loaded on good micro-brews.

Yes.
Imagine how dynamically loaded you would be on a growler of Green Flash IPA.