Engine Seized????????? (1 Viewer)

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Well, this has been a hell of a weekend for me. I tipped the 80 over while elk hunting on friday. Pics and details to come in chat sometime this week.

Anyway, as soon as it tipped, I shut it off, not more than 3-5 sec running on its side. By the time we walked out and I found somebody to attempt a recovery, the road had become nearly impassable to a normal person(dodge 4x4) with chains nearly got stuck so he gave up). We flipped it onto its wheels with the aid of two four wheelers and removing the bottom rear tire.

Tipped at 8 in the morning, back onto wheels at about 4 pm. temp at about 25, and snowing the whole time.

Checked all the fluids and went to start it, Batt voltage looked good, but I heard the starter engage and start to turn, but then just stopped. I figured low voltage, so we jumped it and similar thing happend except this time, after multiple tries, the starter and flywheel started grinding teeth off each other. I pulled the cover on the bellhousing and tried to turn the flywheel with a prybar, but it wouldn't go. It would turn the other way for a while, but after fiddling with it for an hour in the dark and cold we gave up.

I figured that after 8 hours of sitting on its side, some oil might have seeped into the compression chamber and hydrolocked the engine. After sitting on its wheels all night I figured the oil might have seeped back past the rings (motor has 170k) but when I tried it about 2pm on sat, same scenario.

Truck is at the body shop waiting for an estimate, so I can't fiddle with it, but I would really appreciate any ideas on what could have caused the engine to be able to turn backwards, but not forwards.

Thanks,
Dan

BTW, I am Ok except for getting buttstroked by my rifle flying out of the Pass seat.:D
 
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Damm, So you didn't get an Elk huh?
Hope the truck is okay.
You are okay right?

KliersLC said:
Well, this has been a hell of a weekend for me. I tipped the 80 over while elk hunting on friday. Pics and details to come in chat sometime this week.

Anyway, as soon as it tipped, I shut it off, not more than 3-5 sec running on its side. By the time we walked out and I found somebody to attempt a recovery, the road had become nearly impassable to a normal person(dodge 4x4) with chains nearly got stuck so he gave up). We flipped it onto its wheels with the aid of two four wheelers and removing the bottom rear tire.

Tipped at 8 in the morning, back onto wheels at about 4 pm. temp at about 25, and snowing the whole time.

Checked all the fluids and went to start it, Batt voltage looked good, but I heard the starter engage and start to turn, but then just stopped. I figured low voltage, so we jumped it and similar thing happend except this time, after multiple tries, the starter and flywheel started grinding teeth off each other. I pulled the cover on the bellhousing and tried to turn the flywheel with a prybar, but it wouldn't go. It would turn the other way for a while, but after fiddling with it for an hour in the dark and cold we gave up.

I figured that after 8 hours of sitting on its side, some oil might have seeped into the compression chamber and hydrolocked the engine. After sitting on its wheels all night I figured the oil might have seeped back past the rings (motor has 170k) but when I tried it about 2pm on sat, same scenario.

Truck is at the body shop waiting for an estimate, so I can't fiddle with it, but I would really appreciate any ideas on what could have caused the engine to be able to turn backwards, but not forwards.

Thanks,
Dan

BTW, I am Ok except for getting buttstroked by my rifle flying out of the Pass seat.:D
 
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hydrolocked
Pull plugs and crank it and blow all the oil out and all will be good .

Cold /oil thick = not going anywhere past the rings
 

Cruiserdrew

On the way there
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Agree with Koffer. You have a piston trying to compress engine oil. It isn't going to happen. Pull the spark plugs, stand clear and crank the motor. Then re-install the plugs and drive on. Too bad about the tip-over. Carnage sucks when it's your truck.
 
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Koffer said:
hydrolocked
Pull plugs and crank it and blow all the oil out and all will be good .

Cold /oil thick = not going anywhere past the rings

Yep pull the plugs and crank it over first by hand for more than 2 revolutions and then with the starter, after most of the oil is out reinstall the plugs. Hopefully you did not bend a connecting rod.

Many piston engines of the WW2 era were radials, so you had several pistons at the bottom of the engine, before every start the prop was turned by hand through at least 2 revolutions to check for hydrolocking in any of the cylinders.

We had several radials at school, also had several bent connecting rods collected over the years from students that did not remember to do this.
 

nakman

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That sucks. If it helps put you at ease know that my engine hydrolocked 3 separate times when my headgasket failed, before I got it fixed. Awful, awful sound to hear coming from your engine. Yeah that was antifreeze not oil, but the principle is the same- I didn't bend a rod (asaik) and that was 30K miles ago. Hopefully all is well.
 

e9999

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sorry to hear that
how'd you get it back out of there?
 
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So, the oil got into the cylinders from the engine running on its side with oil sloshing up against the pistons, and getting sucked up past the rings on the intake strokes? Then it was shut down perhaps with one cylinder on the intake stroke and the resulting vacuum pulled oil past the rings in sufficient quantity to hydrolock that cylinder?

What could/should he do on startup to prevent oxy sensor or cat damage? With plugs out after suffcient clearing, should he put a teaspoon of gasoline in the plug hole, then spin it again - diluting and clearing out more oil before inserting the plugs and firing it up? I'd also think it wise NOT to fire it up until you could immediately drive it off for a half hour or so to get the exhaust/cat/oxys nice and hot and hopefully burn off the residual. Just getting it started in a shop, then shutting it down may be the worst thing.

DougM
 
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I had mine on its side. I dont think it ran for more than what you are saying yours did. We pulled the plugs, turned it over. Really no signs of anything just precautionary, put the plugs in and it fired right back up. I had a hand fulll of idiot lights come one from ATF to the check engine. from the trail to my house 25 miles all the lights went off and had to do nothing further. my damage was pretty minor. no broken glass. good luck with the fix.
 
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I would think the oil seeped by the rings wile it was sitting on its side for several hours. a running engine would clear the oil, would certainly get more oil past than running rubber side down but I would not think enough getting by in any one cycle to cause hydrolock.
 
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Which side did it lay on? I'd think there would be only minor seepage laying on its side with the engine motionless. And the oil is seeping laterally, so not much pressure to speak of to encourage it to happen. So, I'm not sure that would explain it. My head hurts on this one.

So, which side? I'm thinking driver's side and the oil went from the pan to the valve cover and then in quantity through the PCV and breathers into the intake. Then tip it up and now it's ready to flow into the cylinders? That would work.

DougM
 
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IdahoDoug said:
So, which side? I'm thinking driver's side and the oil went from the pan to the valve cover and then in quantity through the PCV and breathers into the intake. Then tip it up and now it's ready to flow into the cylinders? That would work.

DougM

yes that would work, :cheers:
 
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The oil runs out the breather into the intake, when the truck is righted it runs into the cylinders hydrolocking the motor. Remove the plugs, pump out the oil, replace the plugs and drive, it will smoke like crazy.
 
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No elk....

Got it out with a 4x4 wrecker chained up.(towing question forthcoming)

It did turn onto the driver side, but it didn't turn at all when I tried to crank it, so the oil couldn't have come from the intake because the cylinder that was/is compressing had the valves closed. When I hit the key, hear starter engaging(clunk) and no turning of motor whatsoever. Unfortunately the truck is at the body shop, and I'm sure that they wouldn't appreciate me, the 55, and my toolbox showing up to blow oil all over their clean snow:D

Rifle also hit the windshield, nice spiderweb, flares are toast, front fender and hood are pretty bad, d/s door is munched (no open or close), d/s rear is munched a bit but not bad, rear fender is wrinkled, bumper tweaked, etc...

The biggest thing is that the roof is pushed in about two inches starting about halfway up the A pillar and ending 3/4 of the way toward the B pillar. Is that fixable?
 
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Glad yerOK
I don't know jack about gubs but is there anything you need to do to insure the gub is safe to use after hitting you and the windshiled???

maybe I just like the work gub.........
 
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RavenTai said:
anything is fixable, question is, does the damge exceed the value of the vehicle.
I don't think the damage is that bad, but with the roof pushed in, the rollover protection is compromised, which would make a new body neccesary. this would be expensive, i.e total. What I was wondering is ithe body shop can legally fix the roof and A pillar, and if they can, how do they gain back the rollover protection factor from a compromised structure.

thanks,
Dan


Stayalert, the rifle is an old muzzle loader, so its pretty stout. I discharged it afterwards to avoid having a loaded gun in town and it functioned perfectly.
 
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Dan,
the roof structure should be ok with minor rprs, the issue becomes that there is a three peice box structure with an inner gussett in the a pillar, if there is damage to the inner and the outer structure and they try to cosmetically fix it then there will be issues as the internal peice will not have been adressed. chances are depending on insurance companies they will total it, if you dont mind it being a wheeler and looking ugly buy it back, and do minimal rprs to it. mark at metal tech was starting to work on an internal roll cage for the 80 last winter, not sure if he ever completed it but it is an option.
Glad your ok
Dave
pm me if you have any issues on the estimate they are writing....
 
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If they total it I think I will come out ahead, wrecked 80 resale isn't great and I hear the buyback is pretty low. I am actually kicking around the idea of driving it as is, or swapping my spare pig body onto it:D First order of business is getting the wife a new mall cruiser because this was her DD:doh:

Anyway, time will tell. Phaedrus, thanks for the offer, I am sure that I'll be in touch.

Dan
 

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