Engine Oil Cooler Thoughts (1 Viewer)

[alkaline747trio]

Having a '92, I can't (or am not led to believe that I could) do the Raven mod to my stock temp guage, nor having an aftermarket gauge added, I just feel as if my 3FE runs hotter than it should.

I have recently done several system flushes and a radiator off full clean and flush, I am running approx 40/60 coolant/water&water wetter.

I am thinking about adding an electric pusher fan beside the tranny cooler, and adding a frame mounted oil cooler (like this one).

Would there be a better position for this type of cooler, or would there be a better style cooler to use? Any thoughts on this? Pros/Cons of adding an external cooler?

 

[alkaline747trio]

Nobody?

 

[IBCRUSN]

I think you have the good idea if your oil temp is running high. I have had good luck with B&M coolers. I fabbed and installed the following unit on my bike which is oil cooled:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=BMM%2D70265&N=700+400004+4294924500+115&autoview=sku

I know its not directly LC stuff but I went from a large OEM cooler (approx. 2.5 times the size of this unit) to the above unit and it actually dropped the temp quite a bit when pulling power. It says a lot about the design in that a small cooler can function more efficiently than many larger units.

As received from Summit

(Ignore the rusty pipe, FL wasn't nice to her.)

The ideal plan would be to install an oil temp indicator prior to jumping into the cooler install and document what your temp is doing under various driving/environmental conditions.

All that aside, what I'm getting at is go for a decent cooler, and NOT LARGE because you want to keep your oil temp around ~180*. If you decide to go with the cooler if you stay small like the above unit you can mount it right up front and shouldn't need a fan.

Keep us informed on your plans. Oil temps are one way to help control the engine temps, especially with as much oil that is in a LC. Good luck and if you have any questions ask away that's why we're all here.

 

[alkaline747trio]

The fan is for AC temps, and to help while idling. Even if I'm not actually running overly hot, I know that an oil cooler wont hurt with my underpowered, constantly lugging 3FE.

If there is room after the fan install, I could mount it in front of the condenser, if not, would a frame rail yeild enough air to make a difference?

 

[IBCRUSN]

It might, but with all the mud and muddy water that gets that deep as soon as the cooler packs up it will lose all efficiency.

It would be a good idea to find out where your oil temps are before jumping in though. Oil that is too cool doesn't perform as designed. Even if you don't go with a dedicated oil temp gauge try for something temporary to find your baseline.

It would also be a good read to check out the other cooling system threads if you haven't yet.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=103300

the follwing as posted in #18 above is a good read for venting the engine bay and they look tasteful.
http://www.oman4x4.com/hoodvents.htm

The threads Sumotoy has started are also great reading, a little technical for many but the principals are there.

 

[-Spike-]

I know nothing about the oil cooler but the e-fan I just installed (below the horns) rocks! I had guages on my A/C when I installed it, the high-side pressure dropped around 50 pounds with the fan running vs. without and the vent temps are considerably cooler (~10 degrees) at idle.

You might want to check your oil temps and do some research before you play with that, or at least put a bypass valve in line. I could imagine scenarios where you wouldn't want the oil too cold. There's no thermostat in that system to moderate the temp. I don't worry about oil temps on my 1FZ motor due to the large capacity and surface area of the oil pan, but I don't know if the 3FE is similarly equipped.

-Spike

 

[alkaline747trio]

I know nothing about the oil cooler but the e-fan I just installed (below the horns) rocks! I had guages on my A/C when I installed it, the high-side pressure dropped around 50 pounds with the fan running vs. without and the vent temps are considerably cooler (~10 degrees) at idle.

You might want to check your oil temps and do some research before you play with that, or at least put a bypass valve in line. I could imagine scenarios where you wouldn't want the oil too cold. There's no thermostat in that system to moderate the temp.

-Spike

The E-Fan is a definate as soon as I decide how to mount or whether I am gonna add the oil cooler.

This setup does have a thermostat, in the sandwhich plate adapter there is a 180* thermostat.

It might, but with all the mud and muddy water that gets that deep as soon as the cooler packs up it will lose all efficiency.

It would be a good idea to find out where your oil temps are before jumping in though. Oil that is too cool doesn't perform as designed. Even if you don't go with a dedicated oil temp gauge try for something temporary to find your baseline.

It would also be a good read to check out the other cooling system threads if you haven't yet.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=103300

the follwing as posted in #18 above is a good read for venting the engine bay and they look tasteful.
http://www.oman4x4.com/hoodvents.htm

The threads Sumotoy has started are also great reading, a little technical for many but the principals are there.

There will be no mud to worry about, I stray as far away from mud holes as I can. And I don't see water hurting how well the cooler will work.

You're right about oil being too cool, but as I mentioned, this setup comes with an 180* thermostat which should keep the temps in line.

I've read the cooling threads on mud, and that is where I got the idea for an oil cooler, although a scoop/vent sounds good also.

An oil cooler and electric fan probably wont be the only things I do to try and battle heat, but I figure that they would be a good start.

 

[Erratic]

If it has a thermostat there is absolutely no reason not to put it on your truck. Setrab kits are very nice. Actually, older volvo turbos came with those kits from the factory. I'm headed to salvage yards tomorrow in search of one for my vw. Apparently the sandwich plate fits on my vw no problem. Under load if the engine is heating up the oil will heat up too. Either way you look at it you are removing excess heat from the motor which is good. That's just that much less heat the radiator has to try to dissipate. Now if your oil never reaches the temp for the thermostat to open, well then I guess its useless, huh?

 

[SUMOTOY]

Oil coolers with thermos can never hurt. I'd go much bigger than the one you have pictured. For a 4.5L, I'd look at a 25row cooler. I'd also upgrade the rubber lines to -AN fittings in Stainless, cuz they last longer, and usually wisp at the fittings before they burst (rubber tends to just fail).

Fans on oil coolers are a mixed bag IMO. If you are out of the airflow, use them. If you are in the airflow, you are back to getting all that exchanged heat out from under the hood. The frame mount sounds like a good idea, but you need to pay really close attention to routing of the lines with 'vital fluids'.

Volvo turbos, audi turbos, and the Gen II RX7 (my favorite) are great places to look. You also need to make sure that a used cooler comes from a known source, i.e. if a junk yard pull, is the engine intact, if it ate bits, chances are the cooler has some of them.

HTH

Scott Justusson

 

[IBCRUSN]

Ditto on Erratic's comment. If it has a thermostat run with it. There are a few locations under the cruiser that have enough room to mount a remote cooler and fan setup if you choose not to mount it up front. Mounting an aux fan as Spike mentioned under the horns is great idea for additional airflow when on the trail or sitting in traffic.

As you mention water by itself isn't the problem it's the thin muddy water that will block things up.

 

[alkaline747trio]

Oil coolers with thermos can never hurt. I'd go much bigger than the one you have pictured. For a 4.5L, I'd look at a 25row cooler. I'd also upgrade the rubber lines to -AN fittings in Stainless, cuz they last longer, and usually wisp at the fittings before they burst (rubber tends to just fail).

Fans on oil coolers are a mixed bag IMO. If you are out of the airflow, use them. If you are in the airflow, you are back to getting all that exchanged heat out from under the hood. The frame mount sounds like a good idea, but you need to pay really close attention to routing of the lines with 'vital fluids'.

Volvo turbos, audi turbos, and the Gen II RX7 (my favorite) are great places to look. You also need to make sure that a used cooler comes from a known source, i.e. if a junk yard pull, is the engine intact, if it ate bits, chances are the cooler has some of them.

HTH

Scott Justusson

Mine is only a 4.0L (4.2L before too long), and I do believe that I am too cramped for space in/around the engine bay for a larger cooler, unless mounting it under the body would work.

I don't plan to go used, that might end up being the cheaper way, but usually ends up resulting in more headaches than I have time for.

 

[Erratic]

I ended up getting my volvo cooler today from the local pick and pull. What a bitch to remove! I got a thermostatic sandwich plate and the cooler for 20 bucks. I left the hoses but they would not have worked anyway. I'll just get some hose barb adapters and some good hose and get it done. I may end up getting another one for the cruiser if it will fit. I'll get some measurements from it if anyone here cares. Definetly a cheaper alternative if you dont mind getting dirty at the yard.

The thermostat says 85 degrees. I'm guessing celcius. Just need some fittings and I'm set.

 

[alkaline747trio]

Where are you planning on mounting yours? I'm considering mounting it on the PS inside frame rail just before the muffler. If I do this, I would probably mount a 25 fin (7") stacked plate w/ a 7" fan.

The questions are; should I angle the fan towards the floor pan or keep it flat, should I mount the fan to the ground side or the body side, and should I have the fan suck or blow?

 

[SUMOTOY]

Where are you planning on mounting yours? I'm considering mounting it on the PS inside frame rail just before the muffler. If I do this, I would probably mount a 25 fin (7") stacked plate w/ a 7" fan.

The questions are; should I angle the fan towards the floor pan or keep it flat, should I mount the fan to the ground side or the body side, and should I have the fan suck or blow?

I've done a few remote radiator installs with fans. Draw air down, otherwise you end up with a hot air barrier trying to draw/push it up.

And puller type fans are more efficient at the job by about 20%.

Scott Justusson

 

[alkaline747trio]

So a puller fan mounted on the bottom of the oil cooler, but should I angle it or keep it flat, or will that only depend on which way I am able to mount it?

 

[SUMOTOY]

So a puller fan mounted on the bottom of the oil cooler, but should I angle it or keep it flat, or will that only depend on which way I am able to mount it?

Depends on where you want to draw the 'cold' air from. If you can run a scoop up then draw the air down with a fan, the angle will help in terms of keeping in line with airflow tendencies to go rearward. That said, flat works too, especially if it's all fan drawn air anyhow.

HTH

Scott J

 

[Dusty]

I already didi an oil cooler here
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=54132&highlight=oil+cooler

results are here
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=62375&highlight=oil+cooler

when I put cardboard over the oil cooler the affects was little change in oil temps (i had a temp probe in the oil pan) as measured in the oil pan. water temps changes were even less. I concluded this wasn't a great mod. note that I do have an oil cooler now mounted in my bumper for use with my turbo But I havn't tested it.

there are pics of the bumper mount in my rotw post
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=98285&highlight=rotw

 

[alkaline747trio]

I already didi an oil cooler here
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=54132&highlight=oil+cooler

results are here
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=62375&highlight=oil+cooler

when I put cardboard over the oil cooler the affects was little change in oil temps (i had a temp probe in the oil pan) as measured in the oil pan. water temps changes were even less. I concluded this wasn't a great mod. note that I do have an oil cooler now mounted in my bumper for use with my turbo But I havn't tested it.

there are pics of the bumper mount in my rotw post
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=98285&highlight=rotw

I see not an oil cooler in any pics, what type did you use, how big, etc?

 

[SUMOTOY]

I already didi an oil cooler here
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=54132&highlight=oil+cooler

results are here
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=62375&highlight=oil+cooler

when I put cardboard over the oil cooler the affects was little change in oil temps (i had a temp probe in the oil pan) as measured in the oil pan. water temps changes were even less. I concluded this wasn't a great mod. note that I do have an oil cooler now mounted in my bumper for use with my turbo But I havn't tested it.

there are pics of the bumper mount in my rotw post
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=98285&highlight=rotw

Oil coolers really should use 100C thermostats. I think these trucks run cool a lot of the time. Then when you put massive load on the transmission, the radiator gets heat soaked, sending temps way up.

My own thinking is time would be better spent on the trans cooler system, because it's most likely the heat source problem. My idle measures of 190+f on the inlet side of the aux trans cooler, indicates two things to me.

First, what is going into the bottom of the radiator is really hot if what's coming out is 190f at idle. Two, trans heat will eventually heat soak the radiator.

I bet the manual transmission guys don't share any of these problems. A radiator that only cools the engine, and no big heat exchanger blocking the DS of the radiator.

The rest of us need to get more creative. I haven't seen an actual oil temp measure in some time here, but big sumps usually don't contain super hot oil until radiator overheats. Then there is a lot of hot oil in the sump helping to skyrocket temps quickly.

The engine oil cooler is a good idea for a safety valve in case the radiator gets too hot. I would think addressing the trans temps and moving the trans aux cooler (even the in tank cooler in hotter climes) to help improve radiator and condenser efficiency.

Scott Justusson
QSHIPQ Performance Tuning
Chicago IL

 

[Dusty]

sorry I inadvertadly removed my pics by mistake. It was an earls oil cooler 6"x9"

scott I put a mocal oil thermostat on it. I agree that there are better ways to cool this motor from my experementing