Drivers window..dealer says tracks are gone?

[fullfog]

Ok so i drop my (new to me) 96 LC off at the dealer to diagnose an engine knock on a Toyota replacement engine the PO had had installed at the dealer(glad i did not pay for it).So a week and a spanking new short block later(replaced under warranty),the dealer calls and says all is well except that the drivers window i had asked them to fix,could not be done unless i get a new door!!!!They informed me that the tracks inside the drivers door were missing,and they could not get them as a separate part.They recommended that i get a salvage yard door and swap the parts into it,or pay them 2000 and some odd dollars to order a new door and replace and paint it.(right) I know people have problems with the rubber tracks and/or regulators(which is what i thought was wrong with mine).

Now my question is how can the tracks be missing?Were they kidnapped?and if so were is the ransom note?I have to say the first two weeks of ownership have been interesting.Sorry for the long post,but i do not know much about the window internals.
Zack

 

[Ebag333]

What were your symptoms that you asked them to fix it?

If I was you, I'd ask them for the part numbers of the "tracks" that are "missing". That ought to be interesting....

 

[IdahoDoug]

Interesting.

DougM

 

[fullfog]

What were your symptoms that you asked them to fix it?

If I was you, I'd ask them for the part numbers of the "tracks" that are "missing". That ought to be interesting....

Symptoms: When rolling window down or up the window tended to "nose dive" towards the front of the door.You could guide it with your hand and get it to roll up.When it was rolled down,if you shut the door with any force it will rattle around in the door quite a lot.As far as part numbers,they say it is the metal part of the channels that is part of the door(as in made with the door).Now i was speaking to the service writer,and will not be able to get my truck till tomorrow.Hopefully i can talk to someone in the body shop who knows more about it and get some more specific infomation.

 

[Ebag333]

As far as part numbers,they say it is the metal part of the channels that is part of the door(as in made with the door).

I want to meet the person who stole that (or managed to remove it).

Symptoms: When rolling window down or up the window tended to "nose dive" towards the front of the door.You could guide it with your hand and get it to roll up.When it was rolled down,if you shut the door with any force it will rattle around in the door quite a lot.

Your window is probably off the track. Here's what you do.

Take off the door panel (1 screw for the moulding around the dor handle, 3 screws for the panel in strategic locations, unhook the door light and window/locks module). The panel pops loose (be careful not to tear the plastic behind it).

Hook the window module back up.

Carefully peel the plastic back so you can see the lower two holes.

Lower the window down most of the way (guide it with your hand) and you'll see a bar that the window sits on, there are supposed to be two screws holding the window to the bar. My guess is that one (or both) of these came off. The window is probably out of the tracks too, but this would be the point to see if they're still there or not. You can't miss them.

While you're in there, you could replace the window runs (these might be shot). (68141-60010 for DS and 68151-60010 for PS)

Here's some links that might help you.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/185251-front-window-woes.html

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/127929-window-channel-part-number.html


Moral of the story? Never trust a stealership...



/me edits

My window always has done a bit of a "nose dive". It's not much, but you notice it at the top of the run. I adjusted it as much as possible and it still does it, so I can see how a window could come out of the track very easily.

 

[Brian894X4]

We know the vehicle has been worked on by someone since the prior owner had a new engine put in it.

I'd like to hear the story of why that had to be done.....

But the window roll up/down issue is pretty common and my guess is some mechanic removed or tore out at least part of the window runs to make the window go up and down after it got stuck.

Mechanic pulls off the door panel, sees the window rattting around and assumes the tracks are missing, but really the rubber runs are what are missing. That's my shot in the dark.

 

[fullfog]

I'd like to hear the story of why that had to be done.....

I will give you the version i got from the P.O.Some of it i can confirm with reciepts amd carfax(i didnt know dealer service gets entered into carfax,but it showed every oil change/service since new).LC purchased new in 1996 by a local physician for his wife to drive,service from 0 miles to 150,000 like clockwork.Truck they given to son to go to college.Service history disappears(for about 10-15 thousand miles).Second owner purchases 10/07 form original owner,truck is nasty(inside),but the price was not high so he buys it,drives it home.Couple of days later motor begins to knock. P.O. takes it to dealer,dealer say rod knocking,guy sinks 6300 for new short block,head reworked,..and on and on.Wants to get out from under it after putting about 5,000 miles on it.I buy it.Window a known issue,and i knew it had a new engine(dealer receipts provided).Drive it a few days,hear a knocking from front-bottom of motor.Decide what the hay,its still under warranty,and you know the rest.The guy i purchased it from i think was straight with the info as he knew it.He is local LEO and i work for the city fire dept.so we have friends in common.He never mentioned coming on here or cruiserparts to find a motor,just paid the dealer.They replaced the short block again for me, no questions asked(i think the knock spoke for itself),then i said to look at the window while it is in the shop..and here we are.
I am supposed to talk to their engine guy tomorrow,he wanted to tell me exactly what happened to the engine so i guess i will know more tomorrow.BTW it was dealer serviced twice after the first engine,and all the fluids were full and fresh when i purchased it.WHew...what a mothergrabbin soap opera

 

[jditom]

I want to meet the person who stole that (or managed to remove it).





Your window is probably off the track. Here's what you do.

Take off the door panel (1 screw for the moulding around the dor handle, 3 screws for the panel in strategic locations, unhook the door light and window/locks module). The panel pops loose (be careful not to tear the plastic behind it).

Hook the window module back up.

Carefully peel the plastic back so you can see the lower two holes.

Lower the window down most of the way (guide it with your hand) and you'll see a bar that the window sits on, there are supposed to be two screws holding the window to the bar. My guess is that one (or both) of these came off. The window is probably out of the tracks too, but this would be the point to see if they're still there or not. You can't miss them.

While you're in there, you could replace the window runs (these might be shot). (68141-60010 for DS and 68151-60010 for PS)

Here's some links that might help you.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/185251-front-window-woes.html

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/127929-window-channel-part-number.html


Moral of the story? Never trust a stealership...



/me edits

My window always has done a bit of a "nose dive". It's not much, but you notice it at the top of the run. I adjusted it as much as possible and it still does it, so I can see how a window could come out of the track very easily.

I just ordered a driver front window run from cDan and it's about $60+ with our discount.

 

[Brian894X4]

I will give you the version i got from the P.O.Some of it i can confirm with reciepts amd carfax(i didnt know dealer service gets entered into carfax,but it showed every oil change/service since new).LC purchased new in 1996 by a local physician for his wife to drive,service from 0 miles to 150,000 like clockwork.Truck they given to son to go to college.Service history disappears(for about 10-15 thousand miles).Second owner purchases 10/07 form original owner,truck is nasty(inside),but the price was not high so he buys it,drives it home.Couple of days later motor begins to knock. P.O. takes it to dealer,dealer say rod knocking,guy sinks 6300 for new short block,head reworked,..and on and on.Wants to get out from under it after putting about 5,000 miles on it.I buy it.Window a known issue,and i knew it had a new engine(dealer receipts provided).Drive it a few days,hear a knocking from front-bottom of motor.Decide what the hay,its still under warranty,and you know the rest.The guy i purchased it from i think was straight with the info as he knew it.He is local LEO and i work for the city fire dept.so we have friends in common.He never mentioned coming on here or cruiserparts to find a motor,just paid the dealer.They replaced the short block again for me, no questions asked(i think the knock spoke for itself),then i said to look at the window while it is in the shop..and here we are.
I am supposed to talk to their engine guy tomorrow,he wanted to tell me exactly what happened to the engine so i guess i will know more tomorrow.BTW it was dealer serviced twice after the first engine,and all the fluids were full and fresh when i purchased it.WHew...what a mothergrabbin soap opera

Well, that's interesting. The motor probably ran out of oil due one of the fairly common leak spots, which could be the front oil pump, rear seal, etc and/or the head gasket blew. All of which could have occured at the mileage you're talking about, if some kid was driving it and didn't really give a crap about checking anything. That's all very plausible.

Having a new motor sounds like a nice deal. I would be interesting to hear why the new motor started knocking again. Did they install a brand new motor or was it a rebuilt? My Dad's 2001 Tacoma engine started knocking at about 20K miles due to a bad main bearing and he ended up getting a new shortblock out of the deal since it was still under warrenty. Could be Toyota got into a bad batch of bearings at some point.

 

[rtarh2o]

If the window channel doesn't have a part number then it is more than likely welded into the door. This would be unusual, most are installed with a couple bolts. If it is welded in it would be really hard to take out and no reason to take it out. Nevertheless, if the window track is missing the window would do much more than nose dive, it would go down once, fall into the door cavity and never come back up again unless you got lucky and it just managed to hit the upper part of the track. I am sure you window track is there, probably just the rubber missing as mentioned above. Pull the door panel and have a look.
Rusty

 

[Kalawang]

The whole window mechanism including the motor is held on by screws and therefore is removeable and by my experience, there's nothing welded there. If you choose to test this, be carfull of losing the screws. Replaceing them is sometimes a job. The window channels are rubber and can be pulled out.

Open your panel and look to see if anything has been rusted out. It's possible that the toothedgear, looks like a hand fan, is missing teeth and therefore needs replacement. To my mind it's the most likely candidate for your trouble. It's part of an assembly and would need to be purchased as such but the assembly is screw held and can be removed.

Check to see if the glass is still seated securely on the channel bar that holds it up. Over time and because of sticky window channels the glass can pull out or become loose. The glass is on a bit of felt or rubber, I can't remember at the moment, but that comes apart easily enough if it's loose. You can take it apart, marking the place of the bar on the glass and pinch the metal to tighten and then reseat the glass. You'll probably have to tap it in and if so, cushion the tapping with a peice of wood so as not to break the glass. DO NOT USE SUPER GLUE to fix the loose seating. It doesn't survive moisture very well and will give up within 30 days or less. The most permanent repair is pinching though that is touchy, dangerous to the glass and difficult. Getting the glass and the parts out of the door is a job and a half. That place is like a jag saw puzzle or one of those fun chinese games.

Your window channels probably need replacement if they're old. That can be pulled out and replaced easily if the glass is already out and if the glass is still in, it will take some jostling and knuckle scraping but it can still be done.

You might want to take it to a body shop to get the job done. It will cost you some money but save your knuckles and hair.


Kalawang

 

[IdahoDoug]

You're getting a load of horses*** from a dealership who's losing money on the engine rebuild and trying to 'get back at the world' by telling you you need a new door. You could replace the entire window, tracks and motor with factory parts for a few hundred bucks. New door (cracks up and shakes head).

With this kind of BS, I'd be sure I got excellent documentation not just a 'verbal history of the world we're giving you that we'll forget when this engine siezes 6 months from now'. After he tells you (to repeat - AFTER) what happened to the engine, ask him to put that into the documentation.

DougM

 

[Ebag333]

The whole window mechanism including the motor is held on by screws and therefore is removeable and by my experience, there's nothing welded there.

The "parts" in question are the metal channels that the rubber window channels sit in.

The FSM doesn't even show these components, indicating that either:

A) They are permanantly attached (welded in, glued in, what have you) or....

B) They're not designed to be replacable.

Given their location and the difficulty one would have in removing them, I find it highly unlikely that they are missing. (See attached FSM piccie below.)


As Doug said, I'd get everything in writing. Not just for what they're telling you for the window run, but also for everything that they're doing (or say they're doing) on the engine work they've done.

Then take it all to another mechanic.

Once you have everything in writing, you could tell them that you're taking it to have it inspected somewhere else. They suddenly might just "remember" something they "forgot" to do....

The very fact that the engine blew up a second time so soon after being "fixed" would set off major alarm bells in my head.

 

[Brian894X4]

You're getting a load of horses*** from a dealership who's losing money on the engine rebuild and trying to 'get back at the world' by telling you you need a new door. You could replace the entire window, tracks and motor with factory parts for a few hundred bucks. New door (cracks up and shakes head).

With this kind of BS, I'd be sure I got excellent documentation not just a 'verbal history of the world we're giving you that we'll forget when this engine siezes 6 months from now'. After he tells you (to repeat - AFTER) what happened to the engine, ask him to put that into the documentation.

DougM

To be fair, as far as losing money on the engine, if the block was defective and it was ordered through Toyota, my guess is the dealer got paid twice to install that motor. Once by the original customer and another time by Toyota for supplying them with a defective motor. If the dealer was eating it, I highly doubt they would have been so quick to just fix the motor on a vehicle that wasn't even the original owner when the motor was replaced.

It would be interesting to know if the new 1FZ was a brand new engine or a rebuilt one and who's actually making those engines these days. I would guess they aren't in a Toyota factory anymore. Could be outsourced, just like many other remanufacture parts or made in one of their non-Japanese global facilities.