Drive->Reverse Clunk...bad CV/front axle? (1 Viewer)

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Joined
Jun 30, 2016
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Location
ann arbor, mi
I know there are lots of threads like this one, and I did search and read, but haven't come across this specific issue...

I've got a very solid CLUNK when I go from reverse to drive, a mild clunk on deceleration. Much more than on my old LX470. It sounds/feels concentrated in the front right. That part of the car will jack itself up an in inch or two as the clunk happens sometimes.

Specifics: 2002 cruiser w/ 145k miles. Truck is new to me. Bearings were repacked ~35K ago. I've lubed the driveline thoroughly (as per FSM and the huge clunk thread on here). There's not really any significant play in bushings around there, truck drives great, and the suspension seems tight.

On the driver's side there's a lot of rotational play between the driver's side axle and wheel. I can rotate the wheel maybe a half inch or more before the axle starts to turn and after the slack is taken up I hear a light clunk near the hub.

On the passenger's side, there's almost no play.

Questions are:
1. I assume the outer CV is toast. Is there anything else that could cause that rotational slop? The boots are leaking pretty bad at all four front CVs. No other weird noises (clicking in turns, humming, etc).
2. Should I repack the bearings while I'm doing this? Or even replace them? There's not a lot of play in them, but defer to the wisdom of y'all. They were repacked at the dealer 35K miles ago.
3. Has the clunking possibly damaged anything else I should plan to replace?
4. If I'm taking out both axles, what else should I do "while I'm in there" on a 145K mile truck I plan to keep a while? Seals on the diff, etc?
5. Best source for new CV/half shaft assemblies? I guess now I'm replacing. Is Toyota the best source?
 
Are you certain, and this would be understandable if this is your first 80/100 ;), your clunk isn't the "normal" drive-shaft/yoke issue that seems to plague most of our rigs at one time or another? FWIW lubing the driveshaft on mine only solves the clunk issue for a short time ... I think there's just not enough overlap between the mating splines ... just a guess.

Bearings? Well if the hub bearings have been PM'd you should be OK with a clean and re-use. OTOH if you're not under severe budget constraints (assuming you are not ... because you're here :D) if it were me I'd baseline with new hub/wheel bearings and associated parts (key washer, seals, etc.). Be sure to pay special attention to the needle bearing by lubing it appropriately upon reassembly. I wouldn't bother replacing the needle bearing unless its been run dry.

If the CVs are original and especially if you're building the rig to take you into remote access country I'd swap in two new OEM cv assemblies and be done with it and carry the best existing unit for a trail spare.
 
Are you certain, and this would be understandable if this is your first 80/100 ;), your clunk isn't the "normal" drive-shaft/yoke issue that seems to plague most of our rigs at one time or another?

Well, I had a lower mile LX470 before it that didn't clunk anything like this, but who knows. Greasing the prop shafts doesn't make any difference at all in the sound (not even a temporary fix). It sure sounds concentrated in the driver's front corner as opposed to beneath me.

There's definitely some weird rotational play somewhere between the inner CV and wheel on the driver's side. I dunno if anything except the CV could cause that kind of play. The boots need replacement anyway, so tearing into the front drive parts for a bit of a rebuild won't hurt.

Mostly want to make sure I have ALL the parts I might need on hand on Friday night because this is how I get to work on Monday. :)
 
Pull the grease cap on bad side. Take a look at wheel hub flange and axle teeth. There should be zero play.

I dunno about visible wear, but there's definitely play. Wheel/flange rotates a bit independent of the axle teeth, for sure...

So...I assume both the axle the flange have now been beat up enough that it's safe to assume they're potentially borked...

Here's a video of the play at the axle/flange.
 
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Also check the teeth on the CV axle. Best of you replace the CV and the flange.
 
I'll soon be replacing the CVs also. Any place to get the best price? I read a vendor on this site offers discounts to ih8mud members, not sure if that's accurate. Other option is the junk yard to see if I get lucky. Aftermarket seems too risky.
 
I had the same issue. I have not lubed driveshaft yet. I bought a half shaft from Autozone (cheap I know, but lifetime warranty). Then ordered the flange from Toyota (no one else had this part).

I've never done any job like this in my life, but it took me about 2.5 hrs to complete. Make sure you have a few things, jack, jack stands, snap ring pliers (lowes $15) and a 1/2" breaker bar.

Those tools help make things easier. I got it all right my first go and have had 0 issues and the clunk is cured. I also unbolted everything from the steering knuckle except the lower ball joint to move the hub around freely enough. Read up on it a good bit, then dive in.
 
I dunno about visible wear, but there's definitely play. Wheel/flange rotates a bit independent of the axle teeth, for sure...

So...I assume both the axle the flange have now been beat up enough that it's safe to assume they're potentially borked...

Here's a video of the play at the axle/flange.
Yep that's most common cause for N to D clunk. This issue is caused by improper service of wheel bearing. That is; loose wheel bearing and wide snap ring gap. I highly recommend servicing wheel bearings at same time you fix this issue.

Dealer, when fixing under warranty will replace with new OEM axle (front drive shaft (AKA CV)) & wheel hub flange, or they'll chase clunk forever. If cost not and issue this is best practice.

For the budget minded: If axle teeth are in fair condition and CV & boots are good, you can swap drive shafts from one side to the other. This put's best teeth surface in direction of drive. Then just replace the wheel hub flange. @ ~$50 ea for new OEM's.

CVJ (as @WarWagon point to) is considered the best rebuilt and only carries OEM @ ~$125 after core refund. But you'll have some play as axle are not replaced, so teeth will have some wear.

A little play to be expected with age, but spec is zero play.
 
Yep that's most common cause for N to D clunk. This issue is caused by improper service of wheel bearing. That is; loose wheel bearing and wide snap ring gap. I highly recommend servicing wheel bearings at same time you fix this issue.

CVJ (as @WarWagon point to) is considered the best rebuilt and only carries OEM @ ~$125 after core refund. But you'll have some play as axle are not replaced, so teeth will have some wear.

A little play to be expected with age, but spec is zero play.

So given the fact that the bearings had extra play in them, should I plan on replacing them entirely, or just doing a more careful repack?
Spressomon said he wouldn't plan to do the needle bearing?
 
If the wheel/hub bearings had play in them ... you don't know how long its been that way. Proper preload adjustment for these bearings is significant ... personally I would install new bearings and races and get peace of mind. But, what do the races look like?

Did you find the needle bearing with sufficient grease or not? Unless the needle bearing was run dry, it should be fine. FWIW I use #1 viscosity grease on the needle bearing whereas #2 for hub bearings; YMMV.
 
I haven't disassembled it to look at the bearings yet. It's my daily, so once it's disassembled I'm bumming a ride to work from my wife. Just want to make sure I have the right parts on hand when I start pulling it apart.

I'm assuming it wasn't run dry, as the bearings were repacked at a toyota dealership at 109K miles.

CVJ had a pair for $109 each, so I'll try those with new flanges and see how they look.
 
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^ given the bearings are loose I wouldn't have any confidence in any other work they may have performed. Apparently the Toyota dealer/mechanic doesn't understand how to adjust preload on our hub bearings and get lock nuts tight ... well, you know where I'm going with that ;)
 
And this is why I stopped letting "professionals" touch my vehicles a looong time ago. At least with the money I save on rebuilt axles, I can afford to just replace everything in there and know it should be good (with regular service) for as long as I have the truck.

Does anyone have a link to a good set of snap ring pliers that work best for this job? I keep reading about how miserable the ones in the hubs/axles are and that I should have "duck bill" pliers. Not sure if this is just a different name for the snap ring pliers I already have...
 
Sears or Snap-On: #54

Buy 2 pairs: 1 for your garage tool box and 1 to carry inside your LC ;) Don't forget the brass drift/hammer or use air hammer per LandcruiserPhil to knock the cone washers loose.

Another FWIW: I never reuse the circlips/snaprings ... unless no other option. Given how inexpensive they are, all things relative, I usually have 2 or 3 of each thickness on hand. Its easy to over stretch them when removing ... many first hand recants here about stretched circlips/snap rings coming loose ...makes the slight cost in circlips/snaprings seem downright cheap.

I don't replace these willy-nilly but have them on hand at home and truck: Hub lock nuts, toothed washers and dust caps.
 
Another FWIW: I never reuse the circlips/snaprings ... unless no other option. Given how inexpensive they are, all things relative, I usually have 2 or 3 of each thickness on hand. Its easy to over stretch them when removing ... many first hand recants here about stretched circlips/snap rings coming loose ...makes the slight cost in circlips/snaprings seem downright cheap.
Where do you buy the new snap rings from and in what thicknesses? Thanks!
 
So given the fact that the bearings had extra play in them, should I plan on replacing them entirely, or just doing a more careful repack?
Spressomon said he wouldn't plan to do the needle bearing?
As @spressomon said, it depend on how they look, condition. This includes front drive shaft, knuckle.

I can say this; as wheel bearings have age with miles it's taken me increasing torque on adjusting nut of wheel bearings, to get the proper breakaway preload as read on pull spring scale (fish scale).

I've ~170K miles on this set of bearings:
Here what I found on my 01 LC at ~97k miles, which was my first wheel bearing service job I did on a 100 series. DS had locking nut unsecured by locking washer, so bearing was walking off, and both side (DS & PS) wheel bearings were loose. Records indicate Dealer did that job at ~35K miles. Claw washers on both side where scored (grooved) from chatter, with DS being the worst. Spindle on DS had scoring (grooving & wearing) on back side where large bearing butts to, this wearing increased snap ring gap. Spindle also had blue heat scoring on shaft near small bearing area. Both DS bearings (small & large) had scoring (blue) on inner surface where they ride on spindle. Ball Bearings themselves had/have pitting.

In above example I used emery cloth to recondition spindle, cleaned everything which included removing knuckle. I replaced seals, locking washer, flip claw washer IIRC with good side in, and replaced DS snap ring with next size up. Used #1 synthetic soap based grease in axle needle bearings & bushing in back of knuckle, and #2 w moly for wheel bearings. I set these bearing a bit loose, but much tighter than any shop I talked with, or what I thought was what FSM wanted (~57in-lbft, or ~4ft-lbft). I found claw washer scored again, but not near as bad on next service. I subsequently have learned the FSM says what it means.The torque spec on adjusting in FSM nut is only meant as starting point. Breakaway preload or 9.5 to 15lb is the goal and key to bearing health. I'm now finding claw washer(s) in good condition with near zero scoring from chatter. This and very tight snap ring gap is key to axle and wheel hub teeth health.

NOTE: I'll not use moly fortified grease on wheel bearings again. I used once in attempt to fill pitting in balls of bearings. It was a mistake ,as the moly fortified grease I used retained heat and is not suitable for high speed application. This made bearings look even worst.

Today I still have those pitted factory wheel bearings & race in my 01 LC, as well as the axle needle bearings & bushing and front drive shafts with ~170K miles on them now. I now use 2# Mobil One Wheel Bearing grease for all grease needs of the 100 series (KISS). Over the years I've replace claw washers, hub flange and gone to thicker snap ring as necessary. But still have the factory pitied and scored bearing and races in. I have even reused hub flange cone washer nuts & cone washers, but I do put on dab of blue lock tight on nuts.

Bottom line proper set-up of preload and snap ring gap with good claw washer & cone washers is most important, along with good seals. The bearings are very tough.

On my 01 LX's next wheel bearing service I'll probably replace bearings & races as I'm now satisfied I've a good understand of how to set these up. Addition I'm pressing 50ft or 60tf-lbft pounds torque wet (grease everywhere) on adjusting nut, which is above the 47lft-lbft of locking nut torque spec by FSM.

My first thread on wheel bearings which I've keep somewhat updated through the years.
Wheel Bearing; FSM Torque to Light or just Right.

I've done addition wheel bearing & front drive shaft work on various 100's and seen some really incompetent work, and extremely loose wheel bearing adjusting nuts and wide snap ring gaps. Those had replacement bearing (OEM) with from 10K to 20K miles on them, and still look better than my old factory pitted ones. These various 100's also had replacement front drive shafts and some knuckles. Funny, I found each case DS knuckles replaced with used.
Bearing repack GURUs
rotors & pads think I'm feeling some wobble?
New to me 05 LC with a couple of questions and pics
Excessive play at front differential

For peace of mind put all new if you like. Myself I only change parts I find no longer serviceable. I feel my LC came with the best parts I'll every find, and keep what I can.
@cruiseroutfit has quality OEM parts put tighter in kits at great prices, and is a member worth working with from all accounts:
Bearing repack GURUs Cruiser Outfitters
 
Bringing up this old thread. I'm getting ready to go on a cross country trip and wanted to replace my front brakes as I know they are getting bad. I started with the PS. I got the tire off took the caliper off and noticed that my rotor had grooves in it. I have an extra set of rotors for it so I thought I'll replace the rotors and repack the wheel bearings while I'm at it. I take all the nuts, washers and cone washers off to remove the drive flange. I can barely get the drive flame to come off. Once I finally get it off I realize the splines are all chewed up and so is the end of the CV axle. I disassemble everything to get the CV axle out and have a hell of a time getting it out. So after all that here is my stupid question- are you suppose to either A remove the knuckle from the lower A arm or B remove the lower A arm from the frame to make getting the CV axle in and out easier? Any help would be great. Thanks
 

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