Dressing welds, what do you use and how do you do it? (1 Viewer)

[waiting for time]

40’s series Land Cruisers are sensitive to rust and are therefore found on the business end of a welder on a regular basis.
During my time on mud I have seen many 40’s being welded together, some by excellent welders and some that were earlier in the learning curve.
I have always learned that the lack of welding skills can, to a certain extent, be compensated by grinding skills.

Grinding however might be harder than welding.
I have seen people on here capable of dressing welds in such a way that they were no longer visible even when knowing where they were.

I would like to invite you, as in who ever reads this and wants to share their experience, to share your experience in how to dress a weld And what tooling you use to do it.

I will start off with what I have collected in the last decade in tooling and experience.

Please feel free to comment or add if you think it can be done better.

 

[macdaddy59]

Excellent Post. I am really looking forward to the experts chiming in so I can learn some new techniques.

 

[Skreddy]

For the grinding portion, I use a 4-1/2” angle grinder with abrasive flap discs in various grits. I also use a pneumatic angle die grinder with the smaller roloc style sanding discs.
What I was told years ago and seems to help where possible, is hold the grinder inline with the weld. It’s very difficult to gauge that you’re holding the grinder perfectly flat to the surface so it’s easy to be grinding out surrounding metal. Holding inline with the weld (so body of grinder is facing same direction as weld bead) helps ensure that if you are not parallel, at least you’re grinding weld ahead or behind what you think you’re grinding. Also easier to see the surrounding metal because the grinder and your arms aren’t blocking it.
Another part of dressing welds that I think is often over looked is hammer and dolly. Especially with a warm, soft tig weld, you can really cut down on needed grinding and even give a little stretch to the area to get rid of shrinkage (hehe) in the heat affected zone.

 

[waiting for time]

First up, the 5” electric grinders.

I use the 1mm cit off discs for cutting and sometimes cleaning edges that are more dificult to reach.
The you see the 3mm disc, the cleaning disc for paint and rust removal, the flap disc and the less abrasive cleaning disc.
Then there are the braided and twisted wire wheels and the hook and loop sanding discs.
I only use these for rough work, dressing a weld mostly requires more delicate equipment.
These grinders also add a lot of heat to the weld which increases warping.

The difference between braided and twisted wire wheels is the effect, heat and damage they inflict, twisted is harder on the surface.

 

[waiting for time]

For light cleaning I use these, especialy with thin metal and light rust Before welding.

 

[waiting for time]

When I have some thicker parts in a weld, like when I fixed a hole, I use a small grinder with a carbide steel tip.

Or a small 90degree grinder.

This takes the high ridges of the welds. Fast and with low heat.
Especialy the first one is very effective.

 

[waiting for time]

Next I use the 3” grinders and sanders.
I use three types, the Roloc are used for the rougher part, mostly from 36 going up as the weld gets more flat.
After the Roloc I continue with the hook and loop pads on a single action grinder. I switch between 2and 3” depending on material and speed. 3” works hotter but has a larger speed and working surface.
After the single action I continue with dual action sanding, les material taken off and it matches The different area’s.

These also come in cleaning discs, flap discs and abrasive pads.

 

[waiting for time]

Next to the 3” I use the 2” grinders and sanders. They come in the same variations.
One of the advantages of using different sizes is that you can cut the outside of the 3” pads and use the on the 2” .
I ordered some 1” Roloc and hook and loop pads to reuse the 2”, I’m Dutch.
Here are the Roloc pads and grinder,

And the sanding versions.

I have sanding pads up to 4000 grid.

 

[Skreddy]

I’m going to take a cue from your organization! Right now I keep everything in bags in a drawer but I’m really liking the organizers.

 

[waiting for time]

When welding sheet you will see a lot of warping from the heat.
Internet and experience thought me that before hammering a weld I need grind Them down a bit but not all the way and from both sides.
I used to hammer and dolly them after that but now I learned to use a small sand bag instead of a dolly. The sandbag allows the weld tou stay proud, this prevents most of the valley’s after grinding.
Always grind in the direction of the weld and stay off the surrounding material. Raise the grid number and lower the size of the grinder as the weld gets closer to flat.
A slapper helps to take out the small I perfections.
Here is an example of some tooling I use.

 

[waiting for time]

Sometimes you need something different, here are two alternative tools.

 

[waiting for time]

I only trow the old pads away when they are completely done, worn pads are excellent for finer grid work or on a smaller back surface. I save them in a drawer.
I use a Planishing hammer and E-wheel when possible, flattening steel leaves more material which is stronger.

 

[archie73]

@waiting for time You must have been reading my attempt at sheetmetal repair. I appreciate all the help I can get. Trying to avoid bondo...

 

[waiting for time]

@waiting for time You must have been reading my attempt at sheetmetal repair. I appreciate all the help I can get. Trying to avoid bondo...

It’s just about gathering more information for the community from the community.
Try the YT channel from Pro Shaper, Wray has some nice video’s on the subject Of dressing welds.

 

[waiting for time]

For the grinding portion, I use a 4-1/2” angle grinder with abrasive flap discs in various grits. I also use a pneumatic angle die grinder with the smaller roloc style sanding discs.
What I was told years ago and seems to help where possible, is hold the grinder inline with the weld. It’s very difficult to gauge that you’re holding the grinder perfectly flat to the surface so it’s easy to be grinding out surrounding metal. Holding inline with the weld (so body of grinder is facing same direction as weld bead) helps ensure that if you are not parallel, at least you’re grinding weld ahead or behind what you think you’re grinding. Also easier to see the surrounding metal because the grinder and your arms aren’t blocking it.
Another part of dressing welds that I think is often over looked is hammer and dolly. Especially with a warm, soft tig weld, you can really cut down on needed grinding and even give a little stretch to the area to get rid of shrinkage (hehe) in the heat affected zone.
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View attachment 2578442

When grinding with the body of the grinder in the same direction as the weld bead you are prone to cut into the surrounding material. When using the tip if the grinder and the body at 90 degr. from the weld it is easier to stay on the weld. Using a hammer and dolly will cause indents next to the weld that are hard to get out. Better flatten the weld from both sides and then straighten the material on a hand held sand bag, not a dolly.
Try cleaning the weld area with a wire or nylon brush and Mark the surrounding area with a sharpie. When you grind the weld you can see immediate if you grind in the surrounding material.

 

[SteveH]

You have provided a great set of photos of the tools and have an impressive set! Great opening post and replies.

>> When welding sheet you will see a lot of warping from the heat.

With all due respect, I rarely/never see warping from body metal welding. Perhaps I'm lucky, because I'm not trained or all that experienced. But, I also don't go wild with continuous bead welding....

On this '82 Toyota minitruck bed panel, I cut a precisely-fitting patch from similar gauge steel (thicker 20 ga. here). I then tack the 4 corners (First pix). I then add tack welds between those 4 corner welds (Second pix). I then fully weld between all the other welds (Third pix). I then grind off the weld tops, shine a strong light from behind, and re-weld and re-grind any voids (see green circles showing voids in 4th pix). I never do a continuous bead, which would (of course) tend to greatly increase the heat-affected zone and warp. I grind my welds either with a 4 1/2" angle grinder or the face/edge of a slicing disk, which puts less heat into the grinding area.

YMMV, but I have done a ton of rust repair this way and had no warping issues except small cases of oil-canning, which are quickly fixed with a body hammer and dolly. In the final picture below (Fifth pix), this area is ready for body filler, as the metal is within 1/8" of the original surface profile. I don't try for much closer than that, unless it's by accident, or a flat panel, where it is easier to weld in new metal and precisely see how true the surface is.

 

[waiting for time]

You have provided a great set of photos of the tools and have an impressive set! Great opening post and replies.

>> When welding sheet you will see a lot of warping from the heat.

With all due respect, I rarely/never see warping from body metal welding. Perhaps I'm lucky, because I'm not trained or all that experienced. But, I also don't go wild with continuous bead welding....

On this '82 Toyota minitruck bed panel, I cut a precisely-fitting patch from similar gauge steel (thicker 20 ga. here). I then tack the 4 corners (First pix). I then add tack welds between those 4 corner welds (Second pix). I then fully weld between all the other welds (Third pix). I then grind off the weld tops, shine a strong light from behind, and re-weld and re-grind any voids (see green circles showing voids in 4th pix). I never do a continuous bead, which would (of course) tend to greatly increase the heat-affected zone and warp. I grind my welds either with a 4 1/2" angle grinder or the face/edge of a slicing disk, which puts less heat into the grinding area.

YMMV, but I have done a ton of rust repair this way and had no warping issues except small cases of oil-canning, which are quickly fixed with a body hammer and dolly. In the final picture below (Fifth pix), this area is ready for body filler, as the metal is within 1/8" of the original surface profile. I don't try for much closer than that, unless it's by accident, or a flat panel, where it is easier to weld in new metal and precisely see how true the surface is.

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Thank you for your reply. Your work looks fine and Most important is it works for you I just want this tread to help people do the best job they can.

The fact that you get oil canning shows warping. Warping is not an issue as it can be corrected easily.
It is important to limit the warping but you need enough heat to fuse the metal together.
My experience is that a lower setting induces more heat as it takes longer to melt the metal. This causes more warping but a higher setting will make welding more difficult as you will blow a whole faster.

 

[tstepp920]

Next to the 3” I use the 2” grinders and sanders. They come in the same variations.
One of the advantages of using different sizes is that you can cut the outside of the 3” pads and use the on the 2” .
I ordered some 1” Roloc and hook and loop pads to reuse the 2”, I’m Dutch.
Here are the Roloc pads and grinder,
View attachment 2578460
And the sanding versions.
View attachment 2578461
I have sanding pads up to 4000 grid.

I like those containers. Anything that Leo’s organize a small space is a plus. I start class on introduction to light gauge automotive panel restoration in a week. I really enjoy learning from your posts

 

[middlecalf]

@waiting for time do you use copper backing plates when you can?

 

[waiting for time]

@waiting for time do you use copper backing plates when you can?

Most of the time it is more work, I use tig and try to ad as little material as possible without thinning the material.
Copper is nice when you can clamp it properly but when you have to move it all the time it really slows you down.