Does size matter?

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dude, i have not shot you a personal jab in quite a while. you sure you want to head back down this road?

if the engine does not create torque till 1500 what do you think will happen at 900 to 1500? Crawl = low RPMs or am i missing something here?

Forget completely about engines like the 2LT which have poisoned your view of small diesels.
These TDI engines pull hard from off idle, at 1200rpm they produce more torque than a 1HZ does at peak.
At 1750rpm they are within 10% of the 1HD-T's peak torque.

The torque curve didn't upload before, here it is for the 125kw version. This is not "chipped", this is a bone stock motor.
Tigtorq2.jpg
 
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Tapage

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It may be a while before someone fits one, so maybe a race between a cruiser and a TDI towing the weight difference?

it should be .. but maine not fair coz it can broke an axle or simple avoid the big cruiser drive train drag ..
 

sandcruiser

....back in the saddle again....
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well shoot. I think it would work.
my gut still says "bigger motor will work better in a below-idle situation"
but I don't have anything at all to back that up besides... my gut.

I've driven a bj60 and an hj60. the 2H can lug down further... but I don't have a tach, so I don't know how much further, but I do know that with similar tech, the larger motor can handle below-idle lugging better without stalling

800rpm is a reasonably high idle speed. What happens when it is crawling and you tap the brakes to reduce wheel spin? can it keep going at 600rpm? my 2H does. (yeah, ok, add lockers, no brakes needed)

heck, just for giggles I tried keeping my hd-t at 400 rpms today. I stalled a few times, but it can lug right down there on an uphill with slight braking.

Is that important to this discussion? probably not! But it is one more factor.

I'm already dreaming of a 40-series with no top, fiberglass hood, VW 1.9tdi under that fiberglass, spinning some 255/85s as I tool around the beaches here. Seems like it would be a fun truck that could do well on the road and on the gravel roads and with some serious airing down, on the sand.

fun!

and probably run quietly and return great mileage.

I wish I had the spare change to do it...
 
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dougal, why is the torque curve clipped like that? Is that the exhaust being wasted?

Rick

With both electronic control of the turbo vanes and of the fuelling they can shape it how they like. I don't know if they did it to keep cylinder pressures down or if there is another reason. But aftermarket chip tuners can fix it for you.

It's quite a common feature of new diesel torque curves. First one I saw like that was the 3 litre BMW diesel in the L322 rangerover.
 
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Ha, still stewing over this!

Have you ever come across a torque graph for the MB OM617.952 like the one dugal has shown?

I doubt it will compare, but I'd still like to see one for reference.

Rick


Stewing.... weeeeeeeeee... bubble bubble... bubble... :cheers:

Actually I was seeking some youtube vids of BJ60's when I came across those vids and figured others would find them of interests too. :grinpimp:
 

rchalmers3

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This thread was a real surprise to me. I had no idea the 2.0L 4 bangers could replace a big 6.

Better than swapping into a Cruiser, I think one of the gazillion Suzuki Samurai's running around here could use a transplant!

Sandcruiser is right: cruising the beach in a convertible 4x4 is the cats adz.

Rick
 
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I saw this thread and I must correct some of the statements-1,9tdi vw is not common rail-it is pumpe duse, they are very common in these parts of the world. I personally don't like them-they are noisy, use lot of oil, need high quality diesel fuel, and they are expensive to repair, and they are often seen producing big smoke cloud. I wouldn't change my 2h for 1,9tdi
 
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Very cool, impressive little engine, would make a great conversion for most applications. I would put one in a bush rig for fun, but for something I needed to really rely on I would never use it - simply because it is a VW engine and VW anything breaks. I understand that there are engines with zillions of km's on them but none the less they are a VW engine and ask 90 percent of the VW owners out there and they will tell you that the most rediculous things cause problems for them.

Good for a sammy beating up some bush locally, but not for a cruiser heading into the outback or northern canada where you need simplicity and reliability.

Louis
 

sandcruiser

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ooooh...

Rick, now you've got me thinking: long bed samurai on 235/85r16 tires, with body lift or spring over as needed, little turbo diesel motor. boat stereo and everything inside can be hosed off for easy cleanup. Fun little weekender.

But I would probably do the same thing w/ a 40 instead and be even happier (just replace the 235 w/ 255)
 
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You really need to drive one of these. The stock 2.0 TDI comes in two tunes, a 105kw/320Nm and 125kw/350Nm.
Even the slow one (105kw) would make a far faster cruiser than anything earlier than a 15B-FT or 1HD-T/FT/FTE.

Lifespan will be at least as long, mileage will be far better and drivability too.


i have driven one, the car drove around good enough, but it does have a noticeable flat spot off idle, i was constantly trying to imagine what the small rotating mass of the TDI engine would do in a cruiser.

regardless of numbers on a graph power is different in different size engines, its mass. as i mentioned earlier, why doesnt peterbuilt use a 5.9 cummins tuned to 500hp and 1200 lb ft, thats about the average power they get out of the 14litre 6MPG engines they DO use. there must be a reason, and i think that reason is lifespan, heat, and driveability.

again i'm not saying a TDI wont work in a cruiser, i just dont think its the right choice overall.
 
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why doesnt peterbuilt use a 5.9 cummins tuned to 500hp and 1200 lb ft, thats about the average power they get out of the 14litre 6MPG engines they DO use. there must be a reason, and i think that reason is lifespan, heat, and driveability.

Mainly because there is no factory 500hp 5.9 cummins. Other reasons apply too, but that's the biggest show stopper.
Fullsize truck engines are being downsized and running a lot more boost than they used to. But not to that extreme.

A TDi produces less waste heat (exhaust and cooling system) than an idi engine (2H, 1HZ, 3B etc) at the same power.

I too would like to drive a cruiser with a modern small tdi fitted. Not sure where I'll find one though.
Do you guys get the larger TDi vans over there? Up to 2.8 litre 4 cylinder and 2.5L 5 cyl.
 
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but there could be if the factory would turn it up.

there are several diffs between DI and IDI, hard to compare the two i suppose.

no, we get the small one and i dont think we get the higher output engine you've talked about.
i'd really like to see a TDI in a cruiser also, i'd love to be proven wrong. as you know i have the 4BD1T in my cruiser and i think its just great, about the same as a 15BT?
 
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but there could be if the factory would turn it up.

there are several diffs between DI and IDI, hard to compare the two i suppose.

no, we get the small one and i dont think we get the higher output engine you've talked about.
i'd really like to see a TDI in a cruiser also, i'd love to be proven wrong. as you know i have the 4BD1T in my cruiser and i think its just great, about the same as a 15BT?

The factory is always more reluctant to turn the screws than individuals are, probably the warranty thing as well as protecting their reputation.
After all, a factory tune has to be good for a complete idiot driving the worst way in the worst conditions without killing the engine.

Speaking of which, have you played with your 4BD1T tune yet? The factory fuel pump (if you have the 10mm plungers) can provide enough torque for almost 600Nm. You'll need about 20psi boost and a good intercooler to burn it all clean and cool though.
 
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I saw this thread and I must correct some of the statements-1,9tdi vw is not common rail-it is pumpe duse, they are very common in these parts of the world. I personally don't like them-they are noisy, use lot of oil, need high quality diesel fuel, and they are expensive to repair, and they are often seen producing big smoke cloud. I wouldn't change my 2h for 1,9tdi

dude you lost me..... ¿ :confused: ?

Being I have owned TDI's as well as several Mercedes diesels... the VW 1.9TDI was actually way less noisy then any of my diesel mercedes. As well as having a hell of a lot more power then the two point slow.... I have raced modified 2.0's and the stock 1.9TDI with a double dose of power service was faster and still used less fuel then the 2.0. I have been into Volkswagens since 1980.

Barely any smoke what so ever.... my next door neighbor did not even know it was a diesel. I did get a very very tiny bit of smoke on start up when it was like 0 degree's F outside. Diesel quality is not required to be high quality. In fact for years North America produced diesel fuel up to ten times poorer then seen in Europe. Thats according to the CIA studies. Yes the CIA did do studies of diesel manufacturing quality around the globe.

This thread is just to kick around different approaches using an engine that is half the size of the norm. It wasn't about swapping out a 1.9TDI in place of a 2H. It was more along the lines of how each engine would perform in a similar vehicle.

Correct me if I have strayed away from your statement.
 
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my friends have two, a jetta and a bug, plus the one i drove. they are not noisy, you can hear them and tell its DI engine, but not noisy at all.

dougal i have turned the screw both ways just to check it out, its amazing how gutless you can get it with just a half turn in, and i also notice that with up to a full turn out out it didnt seem to accelerate a whole bunch more, but was much more responsive and the turbo spooled up immediately. course i didnt test it out on a long hill cause i dont wanna burn the engine up.

i still havent a pyro guage so i didnt want to leave the fuel screw changed and have put it back the way it was, i also would like to intercool it if i am going to go for some power. i really am happy with it as is so i dont plan much.
 

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