Does size matter?

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i'll go ahead and pull two engines out of the air for my point.

lets take a 5.9 cummins from dodge and a 14 litre detroit from a big rig.

the cummins can make the same kind of power as the big rig engine, lets say 500hp and 1400lb ft torque. that cummins will scream a dodge down the road and do it in a reliable fashion, but why dont they run that small engine in a big rig even though it has the same power? cause it wont last more than 100k miles in that environment.

believe me, testing has been done all over the place trying to get big rig engines more reliable and better mpg's. if they could do it they would. but they need a certain SIZE of engine to do the work required.

my point is a small engine like a tdi would be a good engine for a cruiser if you just wanted to drive around and get good mileage, but if you expect to lug around off road with big tires full of camping gear, the bigger engine will do it with less effort and be more efficient in the long run.
 
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my point is a small engine like a tdi would be a good engine for a cruiser if you just wanted to drive around and get good mileage, but if you expect to lug around off road with big tires full of camping gear, the bigger engine will do it with less effort and be more efficient in the long run.

I was with you right up to that part above.

The little engine will be far more efficient offroad (especially since we're comparing VW TDI to old toyota engines) and will do it far more easily than the likes of a 1HZ.

Jamie from scotland, I may be in touch later, I'm currently looking at a 1.9 tdi to replace the current petrol shopping trolley. Need some advice from long time owners first.

Basically, VW's tdi's are light years better than the old cruiser diesels. Performance, reliability, economy etc.
 
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I dont think I will be doing a conversion anytime soon. In fact I might have to sale my FJ62 to help pay for some land so my daughters and I can own a house rather then rent. We are just getting back on our feet and I still am not finished with the divorce... crap..


The later Jetta,Passat, and Golfs, weigh in the mid 3000lb range. I've had the Jetta with a full family of five, tunk packed full for a five day trip going into the Cascades. I do admit it was slower then normal, then again it was weighed down pretty good too. And it was rated at stock specs. So no chip or other mods. Any of the power readings I post are taken at the wheels.

If I did a conversion such as this on a 60 series or even a 55, it would be weekend warrior type. So its not going to be pulling extremely heavy loads day in and day out. And I feel it would do just fine packed for the weekend. That is after the mods are done. One thing I do like about the TDI's is that any increase in power for the most part is linear. Horse power and torque go up pretty much the same amount.

My neighbor did not even know the Jetta was a TDI. Had the thing for two years when one day he finally asked me if it were a diesel. When I told him yes he was like "WoW!" Like I said earlier. I pushed that engine hard and we never had any issues with it. And any issues that normally come up are due to that pos egr system that has no place on a diesel a far as I am concerned. It was put on their for American smog laws. That system allows particals to travel back through the intake manifold causing them to build up and clogging things up... a VAGCOM can reprogram the ECM to turn the EGR off and never have issues again.
 
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I dont think I will be doing a conversion anytime soon. In fact I might have to sale my FJ62 to help pay for some land so my daughters and I can own a house rather then rent. We are just getting back on our feet and I still am not finished with the divorce... crap..


The later Jetta,Passat, and Golfs, weigh in the mid 3000lb range. I've had the Jetta with a full family of five, tunk packed full for a five day trip going into the Cascades. I do admit it was slower then normal, then again it was weighed down pretty good too. And it was rated at stock specs. So no chip or other mods. Any of the power readings I post are taken at the wheels.

If I did a conversion such as this on a 60 series or even a 55, it would be weekend warrior type. So its not going to be pulling extremely heavy loads day in and day out. And I feel it would do just fine packed for the weekend. That is after the mods are done. One thing I do like about the TDI's is that any increase in power for the most part is linear. Horse power and torque go up pretty much the same amount.

My neighbor did not even know the Jetta was a TDI. Had the thing for two years when one day he finally asked me if it were a diesel. When I told him yes he was like "WoW!" Like I said earlier. I pushed that engine hard and we never had any issues with it. And any issues that normally come up are due to that pos egr system that has no place on a diesel a far as I am concerned. It was put on their for American smog laws. That system allows particals to travel back through the intake manifold causing them to build up and clogging things up... a VAGCOM can reprogram the ECM to turn the EGR off and never have issues again.

Minipigg,
Sounds like you understand the logistics of swapping in an engine, could you humor me with some of the technical challenges of doing so?

You mention the VAGCOM repro. kit, that completely eliminates the EGR, but you would still need to run the ECM or can you switch to a mech. system? How complicated are the electronics of the engine with the EGR eliminated?

I dont know much, if anything, about the engines but had heard the current crop of TDI's are a PITA to swap due to the theft deterrent/ignition systems they run - which could be complete BS for all I know.
 
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I was with you right up to that part above.

yeah i wasnt clear on that was i,, but what i meant and lets take an extreme example. with gearing a riding lawn mower engine will move a cruiser off road just fine,,,, but its really gonna have problems on the road.

i would love to see a 2.0 litre in a cruiser, i think for everyday all range usage lifespan will be shorter, mileage will suffer and driveability will need to favor one side or the other.
 
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Minipigg,
Sounds like you understand the logistics of swapping in an engine, could you humor me with some of the technical challenges of doing so?

You mention the VAGCOM repro. kit, that completely eliminates the EGR, but you would still need to run the ECM or can you switch to a mech. system? How complicated are the electronics of the engine with the EGR eliminated?

I dont know much, if anything, about the engines but had heard the current crop of TDI's are a PITA to swap due to the theft deterrent/ignition systems they run - which could be complete BS for all I know.

You can switch over to an industrial mechanical pump. I don't know anyone that has done it. Or you can use an earlier model 1.9 that came with a mechanical injection pump from the mid 1990's. If I remember right those were only NA models but you can use the turbo from the 1.6TD engines.

If you remained with a 1.9TDI and kept the ECM... the engine wont notice the EGR has been zeroed. The engine will run as normal.
 
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You can switch over to an industrial mechanical pump. I don't know anyone that has done it. Or you can use an earlier model 1.9 that came with a mechanical injection pump from the mid 1990's. If I remember right those were only NA models but you can use the turbo from the 1.6TD engines.

If you remained with a 1.9TDI and kept the ECM... the engine wont notice the EGR has been zeroed. The engine will run as normal.

Mechanical injection 1.9Tdi was available with a turbo over here, producing either 90 or 110 bhp. Fitted to loads of things so easily available fairly cheaply.

Forget about fitting a NA 1.9, they are pretty slow even in a golf!
 
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Mechanical injection 1.9Tdi was available with a turbo over here, producing either 90 or 110 bhp. Fitted to loads of things so easily available fairly cheaply.

Forget about fitting a NA 1.9, they are pretty slow even in a golf!

From what I remember we got very few of the older 1.9TD's here in the States. And of course Canada received better options with diesels.

I have seen people taking the 1.9NA and converting it over to a turbo diesel using the system from a 1.6TD.

Maybe we can source some things out through you. :grinpimp:
Curious what shipping would be.
 
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yeah i wasnt clear on that was i,, but what i meant and lets take an extreme example. with gearing a riding lawn mower engine will move a cruiser off road just fine,,,, but its really gonna have problems on the road.

i would love to see a 2.0 litre in a cruiser, i think for everyday all range usage lifespan will be shorter, mileage will suffer and driveability will need to favor one side or the other.

You really need to drive one of these. The stock 2.0 TDI comes in two tunes, a 105kw/320Nm and 125kw/350Nm.
Even the slow one (105kw) would make a far faster cruiser than anything earlier than a 15B-FT or 1HD-T/FT/FTE.

Lifespan will be at least as long, mileage will be far better and drivability too.
 

Tapage

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At the end I need to see one big Cruiser with a tiny 2.0 modern engine to believe that it can move as nice as a big Toyota engine do ..
 
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At the end I need to see one big Cruiser with a tiny 2.0 modern engine to believe that it can move as nice as a big Toyota engine do ..

It may be a while before someone fits one, so maybe a race between a cruiser and a TDI towing the weight difference?
 
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I've never towed with a TDI. I would pass up towing an CND M101 with supplies. :D


Well... hmmmmm........ I cant do this now but maybe by the end of the year I might be able to get things rolling. But I would be more interested in placing this engine in an FJ55.
 

denis

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mileage will be far better and drivability too.

I totally NOT believe this. What's the torque curve like between 500 and 1500rpm ?
Bigger truck, I'll take the bigger engine any day even if it's actually slower when you race it, the drive will be more enjoyable.
Plus those newer technology engines are a PITA to work on and $$$ to repair.
 

denis

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I think you guys seem to be underestimating the little vw tdi. 1.9 Tdi were available from the factory with 150 bhp and can easily be chipped to approaching 190 bhp and over 300 lb/ft with no reliability issues.
no reliability issues, give ma a break. It's not like these chipped VW are being raced for a couple of hours at a time, 1/4 mile or inbetween traffic light maybe at most :rolleyes: Even on the autobahn you'd be hard pressed to being able to use 75% power for more than 15minutes at best. That's in no way comparable to driving a brick of cruiser in the hills, maybe towing. Sorry, as much as I like small powerful engines, they don't belong in a big truck.
 
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I totally NOT believe this. What's the torque curve like between 500 and 1500rpm ?
Bigger truck, I'll take the bigger engine any day even if it's actually slower when you race it, the drive will be more enjoyable.
Plus those newer technology engines are a PITA to work on and $$$ to repair.

Well idle is about 800rpm, so the torque curve below that is a little hard to find. But by 1500rpm it's over 300Nm.
Yes this is the weakest of the two tunes, but you still need a 1HD-T or 15BT to beat it.

These little engines are wrung out for hours on end on the autobahn, they are well and truely tested, their reliability is beyond question.

Tigtorq2.jpg
 
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for the race to be fair it needs to be two stage.
stage one, 0-140 timed.
stage two, a 1 hr CRAWL through the bush.

once the RPMs are up i am sure the turbo'd engine will outperform the NA big 6.
at the lower RPMs the big 6 will lug along all day but the smaller engine will overheat and struggle.
 
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for the race to be fair it needs to be two stage.
stage one, 0-140 timed.
stage two, a 1 hr CRAWL through the bush.

once the RPMs are up i am sure the turbo'd engine will outperform the NA big 6.
at the lower RPMs the big 6 will lug along all day but the smaller engine will overheat and struggle.

Smaller engine overheat?:rolleyes:

Have you even got within spitting range of one of these engines or are you just talking crap about something you've never seen or driven?
 
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dude, i have not shot you a personal jab in quite a while. you sure you want to head back down this road?

if the engine does not create torque till 1500 what do you think will happen at 900 to 1500? Crawl = low RPMs or am i missing something here?
 
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If I may, I am fairly sure that your small engine would be able to pull a big lovely cruiser over smooth surfaces relatively easy, but the moment you try to show it some obstructions, and you need to get over them at a low speed, you'll be needing to rev the engine to keep it going, otherwise it would stall out. This is all a guess on my part because the laws of physics tell me that you'll be able to keep a bigger, heavier engine with more reciprocating mass going at a lower idle than you would a smaller, lower reciprocating mass engine going. Sure, you could use a heavier flywheel, but it would take more engine to just move that fly wheel and you might run the risk of stalling it out on the road. Once again, I point to the laws of physics, not just at moving the vehicle, but getting the engine going. More massive things tend to want to either stay put, or keep going. And if the majority of the mass is being used to create power and torque, it should be fairly easy. If it is done through fine tuning, forced induction, etc. in a smaller engine, it may have some issues getting the turbo to create enough boost to get the power and torque working in your favor.

Once again, this is ALL speculation based on what little knowledge I have. Therefore, take it as you will.

EDIT: I would, however, like to see what happens when you do put a small 2.0L or so Turbo Diesel with modern tech equipment in a big, lumbering Land Cruiser just for the sake of experience and seeing what can be done with it.
 

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