Do knock sensors go bad suddenly? (1 Viewer)

[erin]

Hello,

My friend is getting P0332 and P0333 on his '06. I have not investigated too deeply yet and am curious if knock sensors can go bad spontaneously. I suspect it's a broken wire and am curious if I should order a knock sensor just in case. Is it advisable to replace both knock sensors if replacing one? My OCD says "YES!" although my thought for his wallet says no. I believe this is the p/n: 89615-06010.

His truck is not going into overdrive, and I saw a recent post on FB that another '06 owner had a knock sensor issue and his truck did not go into o/d. Has anyone else experienced this? I can see the logic in disabling o/d w/ bad knock sensor(s).

Thanks for any thoughts.

Erin

 

[FxFormat]

Happens on Nissans all the time, not that common on 100 series. I suspect a rodent might chewed the wires

 

[jerryb]

It will go I to safe mode for either of those errors. that means it's trimming timing in addition to no 5th.
The vvti sensors are different from the other ones, and more money. the connector is 90980-11875 X2 and the repair wires are 82998-12790, they are the 2.3 type if that's in your bag of tricks. But you'd need the ones made for weather seals.

It's my opinion that stand alone 333 & 4 without any other engine codes is just that, a wire broken or mouse nest etc.

In my opinion, seriously degraded cats, or no cats and the resulting inefficiency codes 430 & 20 that show up and left current almost always have rewarded me with a 333 code and safe mode.
And another note, if by chance there is a secondary air valve stuck open or closed at the same time- the logic tightens up and things get really exciting. I have no proof just my own experience. There is something that happens with SAI, cat inefficiency and knock.

keep track of fuel supplier, temperature, historical and current codes.
I'd erase knock codes if they were stand alone and switch gas stations and take note of the date and temp and have a look see at rear sensor 02 voltages and make sure it looks ok and total fuel trim under 20+/-
If they come and go randomly like once a month or only when cold outside I'd pick a good time to take the intake off.

Removing the vvti intake may be easier but it isn't any faster. Reinstall the intake with fuel rails and injectors, front X over pipe and rear pipe bolted up by the damper all as one piece. That's the only time saver I've found.
This should be a 3 hour fix if just swapping connectors/wire. Not including cleaning of the black plastic mess inside the intake.

I have not checked in techstream to see if I could watch the output from the knock sensors. I want to say it's possible, I just don't know.

See, this is why forums are bad. I'm positive now in less than 3 or 4 days I'll do the techstream thing that I don't really enjoy and find out if you can graph the output of those.
Someone please post that they have and it's possible. My other car needs more love.

 

[erin]

@jerryb, Thank you! Great info. And a little more info for you. There are other codes... 332, 333, 430, C1201, and C2123. The P0430 has been active for quite some time, and I have not pulled cats to check them. The truck uses lots of oil, so I suspect they are fouled or worse. We are making a game plan to resolve oil burning, and I want to solve all other issues to decide the best steps forward. 332 and 333 seem like easy ones to start with.

We're both confident there is not a rodent issue. When I replaced the starter last year, there was one connector under the intake that was damaged, and I cannot recall which one it was. I don't think it was the knock sensor, although I hope it was, and it finally let go. It would be nice to pull the intake and find that connector failed, replace it, and correct that issue. I'll order a sensor and other items just to be safe.

I deleted the codes, and 332/333 came back immediately. I checked O2 voltages a few weeks ago and did not record them. I immediately compared them to mine ('06 LX) and recall they were very similar. Here's what I had on that day:

Are the O2 sensors supposed to be closer in voltage value? Both trucks were reading about 0.76V B1 and 0.11V B2. That seems odd to me. I don't recall if the trucks were warm or not when checking real-time data.

I'll prep for replacing the knock sensor and hope it's just the connector. I'll button it back up and see if that clears 332 and 333.

The C1201 has me scratching my head. I need to do much more research on that one.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Erin

 

[jerryb]

rear voltage should be closer. But the older they are and whatever else is going on like intake leaks, cat age, sensor age, the more chance of voltages being further apart. But one being high throttle lift off and the other being full throttle voltages under heavy load at the same time isn't real promising. I'd assume fueling is good just on front voltage and lambda/AFR. If I watch mine, I watch all 4 while I'm driving to see that they mimic each other, front and rear, and side to side. Open loop full load full throttle and high throttle lift off from 80-90mph on the freeway. Rear volts should be between .3 and .7 maybe even less so. Age is important.
I like .4x and .6x idling at closed loop. I mean my ecu likes it. You can catch a full rich or lean on a bluetooth transmitter. If they, the rears, don't respond accordingly, there's a problem.

If that screen shot is of your truck and not the one suspect and no codes were present- pending also- then it was acceptable to the ecu that day. 430 being two trip and I believe knock being single event.

Since 333 and 332 I guess I would have a look at that connector/ wires.
I'd start thinking about a leak down/compression check. Maybe before I did anything else. Valve covers off, have a look see.. maybe.

Maybe two new rear sensors. One universal OEM type from denso for vvtis will fit both sides. OEM from toyota will not. They have different length wires.

intake or exhaust leaks. I don't think more needs to be said.

Maybe take both the cats off and have a look. Or just the passenger side and see how bad the piping and flanges are, along with the gasket grooves. Maybe they're oily and messed up. Maybe the passenger side is just a big wet mess and the drivers side isn't. Depends on money, time, and condition if that's something you want to do. Have a look at all 4 sensor tips/ maybe a camera into the forward sensor hole and look at the face of substrate on the front side.
Likewise maybe you can get a camera into the rear sensor hole and look at the front face of the second substrate. There's two sections on each cat pipe per side with the rear sensor in the middle.

All of your codes could be results of oil burning long term though. The general consensus is going to be leakdown and compression before anything else.
If it was a used car you were buying that would be the logical first step. Depends on what that car looks like and the condition of the exhaust/ intake, etc

I'd just start taking everything apart if I was stuck with it, and do a leakdown after, somewhere between cat and valve cover removal, considering my free time is mine, and free. The only thing that's going to cost real money if it's not an engine oiling issue is the cat if it's really bad, o2 sensors rear for 100$ for both. gaskets and studs nuts for exhaust, and labor.
I wouldn't worry about the 1201 or the tpms until after everything else.

I favor leakdowns, not compression checks.

I'm not a mechanic, those are just my thoughts on the subject.