Do I Need a Double Cardon Driveshaft? (1 Viewer)

[CaptBeardilocks]

I'm in the middle of building my 1HDT/H151 swap. I'm going to need to get a custom length REAR driveshaft made up because the H151 is about 2.75" shorter than the auto box that came out. Suspension is Slinky Stage 4. 75mm lift on paper but no idea what it will be fully built and under load. Rig will be on the heavy side.

Is there any reason to get a DC shaft right out of the box here? Or should I be fine with a lengthened stock shaft?

 

[Malleus]

EDIT: you didn't specify the tire size, so my answer assumes the pinion input angle will be acceptable. If you're planning on 14" tires (for some reason) ...

I think the choice is a matter of cash. If the new shaft is less than the mod to the OEM, go with that. The advantage of a new shaft is that it will likely be balanced better than a mod shaft.

As to whether you "need" it or not, no.

 

[bajaphile]

If you're already getting a custom shaft made, I'd go with the double cardan shaft.

 

[CaptBeardilocks]

Tire size hasn't officially been nailed down yet but as it will be an overland vehicle, likely 33's with a possibility of 35's. But not larger.

Money is a bit of an issue simply because SO bloody much cash is going into the build that I really have to pay attention to not going completely over the top.

If anyone has a used, late 80 series, manual transmission WITH full time transfer case driveshaft let me know. Hahaha.

 

[landtank]

I’d go with a modded stock shaft. The fact that you need to lengthen the shaft means the operating angles will automatically be less. If there is a vibe afterwards desl with it then with longer LCAs or shorter UCAs to dial in the angles.
But if you do what to go DC I have a good joint that can be used to make one out of your stock shaft

 

[BILT4ME]

EDIT: you didn't specify the tire size, so my answer assumes the pinion input angle will be acceptable. If you're planning on 14" tires (for some reason) ...

How will tire size affect his need for a double cardan DS?

Tire size does not affect relationship of pinion or suspension setup.

 

[Malleus]

No, but it does give an indication of the rest of the setup, which was lacking.

 

[CaptBeardilocks]

Thanks @landtank I love it when the math comes out to prove a point. It will relax the angles at the longer length. I was already scoping you & Joey our for the DC if I go that way. Thanks!

It looks like I might be able to still get a longer stock shaft as the MTM VCD shaft still seems to be available in UAE & Japan. I need to double check the length on that part number. I just need to see how much a lengthen & balance is here in the states. Less than $500?

Thanks everyone!

 

[landtank]

The challenge of retubing a shaft is finding a shop that uses metric tubing. My guy has had trouble at times getting it. Worst case scenario would be to have me process your good shaft which would be about 250.00 plus the shipping.

 

[SNLC]

Thanks @landtank I love it when the math comes out to prove a point. It will relax the angles at the longer length. I was already scoping you & Joey our for the DC if I go that way. Thanks!

It looks like I might be able to still get a longer stock shaft as the MTM VCD shaft still seems to be available in UAE & Japan. I need to double check the length on that part number. I just need to see how much a lengthen & balance is here in the states. Less than $500?

Thanks everyone!

Yes we get both front & rear shafts, front with a DC, in custom lengths and long spline from Tom Woods all the time for the $700-800, that is for both shafts.


Cheers

 

[BILT4ME]

Also realize that a DC shaft will require proper lubrication every 3000-ish miles. Otherwise, they can come apart on the interstate and wreck all kinds of stuff.

 

[COYS]

Also realize that a DC shaft will require proper lubrication every 3000-ish miles. Otherwise, they can come apart on the interstate and wreck all kinds of stuff.

Hey, BILT, what do you recommend as "proper lubrication"? Are we talking about greasing the u & slip joints with some NLGI 2 type grease?

 

[BILT4ME]

Hey, BILT, what do you recommend as "proper lubrication"? Are we talking about greasing the u & slip joints with some NLGI 2 type grease?

Talking about using NLGI2 and/or moly on the slip yoke and more specifically the center joint on the DC section, not as much worry for the standard cross U-joint.

I use Lucas Red-N-Tacky 2 for the U-joints (needle bearings) and moly for the slip yokes. I would also use the moly for the DC joint due to extreme pressure an heat.

There was a thread on here discussing Spicer flanges and some others, but it showed a couple pics of a center joint after it exploded and how blue it was from lack of grease. It was only on for about 4-5K miles.

 

[COYS]

Talking about using NLGI2 and/or moly on the slip yoke and more specifically the center joint on the DC section, not as much worry for the standard cross U-joint.

I use Lucas Red-N-Tacky 2 for the U-joints (needle bearings) and moly for the slip yokes. I would also use the moly for the DC joint due to extreme pressure an heat.

There was a thread on here discussing Spicer flanges and some others, but it showed a couple pics of a center joint after it exploded and how blue it was from lack of grease. It was only on for about 4-5K miles.

Learning about the need to grease the joints as or more frequently than engine oil changes! I bought a new OEM rear shaft coupled with the landtank dc front shaft with koyo u-joints a couple of years ago. I recently greased them for the first time after piling on about ~20K Prius miles. I didn't have any noise or issues other than a slight/intermittent slack in stop and go. I used Valvoline Palladium on both joints and pumped the slip yokes full past movement or until I saw grease spill out per the FSM. Drivetrain is tight as a drum again.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[BILT4ME]

Learning about the need to grease the joints as or more frequently than engine oil changes! I bought a new OEM rear shaft coupled with the landtank dc front shaft with koyo u-joints a couple of years ago. I recently greased them for the first time after piling on about ~20K Prius miles. I didn't have any noise or issues other than a slight/intermittent slack in stop and go. I used Valvoline Palladium on both joints and pumped the slip yokes full past movement or until I saw grease spill out per the FSM. Drivetrain is tight as a drum again.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I helped rebuild a LX450 that had a DC shaft grenade on the interstate.
The inside of the joint was blue, that shaft only had about 3000 miles on it. The owner loaned the tuck to an older couple to traipse around the Midwest for the summer. They put on close to all of the 3000 miles.

They were running 70 MPH, passing a semi on the interstate, when the joint came apart. The DS slapped around under there, busted the transmission bell housing, the transmission case, cut the wiring harness, beat a hole in the floor on the passenger side, and dented the exhaust. It was still attached on the front diff so it was still spinning until they stopped.

Based on what I saw there and what many here have experienced, I would not own one.

That said, that truck also had a 6" lift.

realize that almost ALL trucks after 1998 have DC shaft on them and there are rarely issues, but they are not at extreme angles either.

 

[landtank]

I haven't seen any problems with the factory shafts being greased every 5000 miles. And pump grease into the slip yoke until it expands a little. Checking back you should see a grease splatter ring where some of the old grease was forced out of the slip yoke at the splines. If there is no splatter ring the shaft needs to be separated and thoroughly cleaned.

 

[COYS]

I haven't seen any problems with the factory shafts being greased every 5000 miles. And pump grease into the slip yoke until it expands a little. Checking back you should see a grease splatter ring where some of the old grease was forced out of the slip yoke at the splines. If there is no splatter ring the shaft needs to be separated and thoroughly cleaned.

Thanks - pics would be helpful (splatter ring visual). I'll be regularly greasing the joints coinciding with each engine oil change.

 

[landtank]

The rear hits the muffler pretty good, the front you have to look around some.

 

[COYS]

The rear hits the muffler pretty good, the front you have to look around some.

If I am to replace the u joints on the land tank dc shaft, what u joint do you recommend I buy and how many do I need to replace all u joints on the dc shaft? I’m hoping I can use Toyota joints. Thank you.


Toyota
04371-60070: FRONTS
04371-60210: REARS

 

[landtank]

The only u-joint you can change is the front one.