Disk / drum master cylinder kit without booster (1 Viewer)

[Alex Waddell]

I am doing a front disk brake conversion on a 1968 FJ40 using FJ60 parts.
Does anyone have any experience with using a booster-less master cylinder?
I am planning to install a 3F-E engine and I hear that there are clearance issues with a brake booster.

Man-a-Fre sells a bolt on kit that I am tempted to use.

Tandem Brake Master Cylinder for 1958-1970 4x-Series Toyota Land Cruisers with Front Disc Brake Conversions - Landcruiser Parts

Tandem Brake Master Cylinder for 1958-1970 4x-Series Toyota Land Cruisers with Front Disc Brake Conversions. For use with Front Disc Brake with Rear Drums.

manafrelv.com

I know that the performance is not as optimal as with a booster but may be better than drum brakes and would be easier to install.

 

[navydivedoc]

I'm doing this on my 61. Use the early FZJ80 non-ABS MC, shouldn't need the proportioning valve. Get the firewall adapter from @65swb45, around $45 if I recall. That JT outfitters kit is wildly overpriced, if you can get it from them, which is a big If. Thread here

 

[too tall]

A 3fe will fit in a 40 series with a booster . I think I used a smaller dual diaphragm one from a 4runner or mini truck. I think it will work without a booster as well as navydivedoc says a 1993 non abs works well for 4 wheel disks . 60 series master will work for disc/drum setup. You may want to change the pedal ratio a bit to get a bit more leverage on the master. Sometimes you can just drill a new hole in the pedal arm above the other one to increase the ratio.

 

[Alex Waddell]

A 3fe will fit in a 40 series with a booster . I think I used a smaller dual diaphragm one from a 4runner or mini truck. I think it will work without a booster as well as navydivedoc says a 1993 non abs works well for 4 wheel disks . 60 series master will work for disc/drum setup. You may want to change the pedal ratio a bit to get a bit more leverage on the master. Sometimes you can just drill a new hole in the pedal arm above the other one to increase the ratio.

Do you still have your 40 with the booster?
If so, could you please send pictures of the master cylinder and any part numbers if you can see any?
It must be from a 4Runner because my 85 mini truck does not have a dual diaphragm.

And I am not going with 4 wheel disks, I am keeping the rear drum brakes.
Can I still get away with not using a proportioning valve?

Getting more leverage on the master would also shorten the stroke. Do you see a problem with that?
Thanks!

 

[navydivedoc]

The problem with putting a booster in your 1968 is the rib that runs between the Brake MC and the clutch MC. If you're willing to cut the rib and do some minimal grinding on the clutch MC, then you can fit a cityracer booster. Probably others. I'm going without the booster initially to leave the rib. @wngrog has a write up on this in his project Patina thread. I'm too lazy to dig through that many pages for it, but it worked well for him. He did it with a 2F, not a 3FE, so can't speak for interference there.

 

[Alex Waddell]

The problem with putting a booster in your 1968 is the rib that runs between the Brake MC and the clutch MC. If you're willing to cut the rib and do some minimal grinding on the clutch MC, then you can fit a cityracer booster. Probably others. I'm going without the booster initially to leave the rib. @wngrog has a write up on this in his project Patina thread. I'm too lazy to dig through that many pages for it, but it worked well for him. He did it with a 2F, not a 3FE, so can't speak for interference there.

I have no problem cutting the rib or grinding the Clutch Master Cylinder within limits.
But I have heard that some people had to move their brake pedal assembly over which is probably more invasive than I would like to go.

Here is a picture of someone that did a brake booster in an FJ40 with a 3F-E in it.
But without part numbers, adapter plate design details, or push rod lengths I would need to figure it all out from scratch.

I have a lot more to do on my project and don't need another science project.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Hilndr1701]

I'm getting ready to do this with my 68. Did you go boosterless? If so, what do you think?

 

[EWheeler]

I'm getting ready to do this with my 68. Did you go boosterless? If so, what do you think?

The consensus is disc/drum or disc/disc setup, the FJ80 for disc/drum, and the FZJ80 for disc/disc (non-abs for both I think?) master cylinders work well WITHOUT a booster. I've also read the FJ40 drum/drum master cylinder works well without booster in the earlier models if you're just upgrading to dual circuit brakes. For any of these, I think the JT outfitters firewall adapter will work. I know Mark's Offroad also sells a steel adapter that spaces the master cylinder out away from the firewall a bit for easier brake line routing so you're not fighting with the firewall rib.

Here are a bunch of threads I saved for reference:

Rob uses a drum/drum FJ40 master to upgrade his single circuit brakes in his FJ45. He later upgrades to disc/drum, not sure what master he used in that upgrade.

My Single Circuit Brake UpGrade

It was time to upgrade the brakes on our 1967 FJ 45 LWB, I have been kicking around the idea of making our own adapter and after talking to a buddy :hhmm: ( Cherry Valley Joe ) I expaling what I wanted to do. Use a later FJ40 Duel Circuit Master Cylinder ( Still runnning drum brakes ) and not...

forum.ih8mud.com

Brake Master Option for early FJ40

Poser clued me in on this and I thought I'd pass it on. For folks with the single circuit, unboosted Master Cylinder that want to upgrade to a dual circuit (I'm starting a 4 wheel disc conversion) without the added expense of sourcing a booster: Man A Fre sells a Wilwood master with an...

forum.ih8mud.com

1969 FJ40 Brake Questions

Hello All, I used the search button and have been reading all day :). The brake master cylinder in my 40 is leaking so I have been looking at the following options: - Should I just replace the single circuit master cylinder? - Should I upgrade to a dual circuit system...

forum.ih8mud.com

78 Disc/Drum combo upgrade to early FJ40, Best MC?

I am rebuilding a set of 78 axles to have a dual circuit, disc/drum set up in my 1961 FJ40. @Rainman is making a new set of brake lines for it. I originally was going to just run the drums and convert to a dual circuit system, so I had already ordered a new Drum/drum MC and a firewall adapter...

forum.ih8mud.com

69 FJ40 Brake Master upgrade

My old one line brake master cylinder went out. I wanted to upgrade it to two lines to separate front and rear. But I have very limited space between the firewall and the carb. The only 2 line master cylinder that would fit is the 75-80 version. But all the pictures show it with a booster. Can I...

forum.ih8mud.com

Builds - Goat. A 1967 survivor FJ-45 LWB - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/goat-a-1967-survivor-fj-45-lwb.1032660/page-57#post-12820683 (this is just a link to a post were JackA states he runs the FZJ80 master with no booster on a disc/disc setup in an early truck and it works well)

Builds - Goat. A 1967 survivor FJ-45 LWB - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/goat-a-1967-survivor-fj-45-lwb.1032660/page-58 (nolen's disc brake upgrade on the Goat Fj45 with no booster)

Brakes on 1970 FJ40

Hey all, I just replaced my front brake pads and master cylinder in hopes of addressing my brakes needing pumping before they would engage. I have bled them twice but yet it still needs pumping to stop. There is not leakage on any of the wheel cylinders. Any suggestions?

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Happy reading.

 

[Alex Waddell]

I'm getting ready to do this with my 68. Did you go boosterless? If so, what do you think?

Hilndr1701,​

I ended up going non-boosted due to the clearance to the 3F-E intake manifold.
I am using the bell housing motor mounts which mounts the engine too close to the firewall and there isn't room to fit a booster.

Do I understand you saying that you are installing a 3F-E as well?
If so, there are a few other details that you may be interested in. PM me if you are interested.

I also considered using a hydro boost setup but I would have needed to clock it to make it fit and it ended up being pretty expensive and complicated.

I called Wilwood and the tech said running a master cylinder without a booster would be fine and would be less complicated.

Initially, I wanted to go with the Man-a-Fre Tandem master cylinder kit #47201-KITDC/DM.
But it had an unknown lead time due to the availability of the tandem master cylinder.

I determined that master cylinder in the Man-a-Free kit was made by Wilwood.
I ended up ordering the master cylinder directly from Wilwood (#260-8794 $167.33). I called Man-a-Fre they sold the parts in the kit to me minus the master cylinder ($98.90).
However I have not installed the parts yet.

If you are not installing a 3F-E, I bought a master cylinder spacer that extends it in front of the rib and should let you mount a later model Toyota master cylinder.
I won't need it now so I can give you a good deal on it. PM me if you are interested.

 

[EWheeler]

Hilndr1701,​

I ended up going non-boosted due to the clearance to the 3F-E intake manifold.
I am using the bell housing motor mounts which mounts the engine too close to the firewall and there isn't room to fit a booster.

Do I understand you saying that you are installing a 3F-E as well?
If so, there are a few other details that you may be interested in. PM me if you are interested.

I also considered using a hydro boost setup but I would have needed to clock it to make it fit and it ended up being pretty expensive and complicated.

I called Wilwood and the tech said running a master cylinder without a booster would be fine and would be less complicated.

Initially, I wanted to go with the Man-a-Fre Tandem master cylinder kit #47201-KITDC/DM.
But it had an unknown lead time due to the availability of the tandem master cylinder.

I determined that master cylinder in the Man-a-Free kit was made by Wilwood.
I ended up ordering the master cylinder directly from Wilwood (#260-8794 $167.33). I called Man-a-Fre they sold the parts in the kit to me minus the master cylinder ($98.90).
However I have not installed the parts yet.

If you are not installing a 3F-E, I bought a master cylinder spacer that extends it in front of the rib and should let you mount a later model Toyota master cylinder.
I won't need it now so I can give you a good deal on it. PM me if you are interested.

One needs to pay attention to the 2-bolt pattern on the Wilwood unit, it will not work with the multiple adapter offerings listed previously (for the standard 4 bolt toyota master cylinder pattern). You'll have to get the wilwood specific adapter from Man-a-free to use that master cylinder.

 

[Alex Waddell]

One needs to pay attention to the 2-bolt pattern on the Wilwood unit, it will not work with the multiple adapter offerings listed previously (for the standard 4 bolt toyota master cylinder pattern). You'll have to get the wilwood specific adapter from Man-a-free to use that master cylinder.

Yes that is what I did. I bought the three bolt to two bolt adapter from Man-a-Fre.

 

[Hilndr1701]

Thanks for your help, I bought the JT Outfitters kit but was a little bit worried about a booster. I don’t think I’ll have to worry about it now, maybe later.

 

[EWheeler]

Thanks for your help, I bought the JT Outfitters kit but was a little bit worried about a booster. I don’t think I’ll have to worry about it now, maybe later.

Man-A-Fre Dual Master Cylinder on 4-drum '67- Need confirmation.

It's not a question of needing more or less fluid. It is simply that a smaller slave piston has less force, or a larger slave piston makes more force. The opposite is true for the master bore size. Going down in wheel cylinder size reduces the amount of braking force for a given pedal force...

forum.ih8mud.com

Here is another great thread I found, Jim C gives his input. Jim C's word is gospel around here. Post's 9 and 10 pretty much answered all my questions. On my 69 with drum/drum, I'm going with the FJ80 1" diameter master, no booster, no residual pressure valves, and already have the JTO adapter. Just need some brake line and 10mm fittings.