Diesel 80 Wagon versus Dodge Cummins Camper? (1 Viewer)

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Sounds like you have a very cool FJ80, and if you want to pull a small camping trailer, hard side or pop up, that is the way to go. I love Toyota, but I like all other rigs also. I went to a 95' Dodge single cab, longbed, Cummins Diesel, 4:10 gears with an overdrive, 35" tires, and I can get 23mpg driving conservatively here in the Colorado Rcky mtns. I can get 20mpg driving 75-80mpg, and all the power I need for any hill. It is all mechanical, no computer, and I can turn my fuel pump up to give me twice the power, which I don't need right now.
I can run any trail that an FJ80 can run also, I have pics to prove it. I do get some paint pinstriping, but I don't care, and I use my truck for my daily driver. It is my all around rig.
I wish I had a 4BT, or a 6BT Cummins in a Toyota FJ80, but Qbama is cracking down on conversions, that is what our local Emissions Air program told us just 2 months ago.

My Dodge with stock suspension, I do have a 2 inch level spacer up front. I'm hanging with my buddys FJ40 with ARB's, 37" MTR's. Look at the factory flex I get in the rear and up front. He got 16mpg with his throttle body Chevy V8 going to the trail, I got 21mpg on this trip, and he couldn't even come close to staying with me on the highway going up the hills, I didn't even see him in my mirrors.
But I still love the Toyota's. I will probably build one for my hardcore offroad rig next year. The cool thing is, I will be making a queen sized bed in the back of my bed, and all my camping gear will go under the bed. I do, and will finish my build thread over hear. http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28936
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no brainer, the dodge with a camper. this coming from a true Cruiserhead.
i bought a 2WD 1992 auto with a bench seat and promptly did a 11,000 km tow from Ontario to SanFran, Victoria, Calgary and back. the bench is a GREAT seat, stretch out and enjoy. good power for the 9000 lbs i was towing (you can not do that reliably with a 80 series) fuel economy was good considering the load.
i went with the 2 wd since i didn't want the extra BS that comes with the t/case and front diff plus it rides like a caddy.
the 80 is nice if you just want a putz vehicle but parts are not cheap, they are not great on fuel and they are full time 4wd with a recommended tow rating of 3500 lbs and i will tell you that THAT weight gets old fast.

the dodge is going up for sale soon since i want to go back to a PowerSmoke van for my tow vehicle.

it is your money, your trip so do what you want.

Cruisers are great for what they were designed for, towing is not one of them.
 
Darn, had typed out a lengthier answer but it seems to have vanished. Here goes again, in more succint form...

Sounds like you have a very cool FJ80, and if you want to pull a small camping trailer, hard side or pop up, that is the way to go. I love Toyota, but I like all other rigs also. I went to a 95' Dodge single cab, longbed, Cummins Diesel, 4:10 gears with an overdrive, 35" tires, and I can get 23mpg driving conservatively here in the Colorado Rcky mtns. I can get 20mpg driving 75-80mpg, and all the power I need for any hill. It is all mechanical, no computer, and I can turn my fuel pump up to give me twice the power, which I don't need right now.
I can run any trail that an FJ80 can run also, I have pics to prove it. I do get some paint pinstriping, but I don't care, and I use my truck for my daily driver. It is my all around rig.
Thanks Scott. Indeed 80 and DOdge/Cummins are great vehicles in their own right, and you're doing great things with your Dodge, wheeling wise! I'm not a wheeler, so if i picked up a Dodge, it would be used on road principally, lengthy highway runs and some lenghty runs on gravel roads and highways up north.
Like you, I want to setup a sleeping platform and storage underneath, in the back of the 80, for trips and camping closer to home.
Cheers!;)

no brainer, the dodge with a camper. this coming from a true Cruiserhead.
i bought a 2WD 1992 auto with a bench seat and promptly did a 11,000 km tow from Ontario to SanFran, Victoria, Calgary and back. the bench is a GREAT seat, stretch out and enjoy. good power for the 9000 lbs i was towing (you can not do that reliably with a 80 series) fuel economy was good considering the load.
i went with the 2 wd since i didn't want the extra BS that comes with the t/case and front diff plus it rides like a caddy.
Cruisers are great for what they were designed for, towing is not one of them.
Thanks Wayne, for confirming what I felt was the better solution (as indicated also by some previous posters on this list, who've owned both types of rigs).
For me 2WD may be all I require, as I don't envision off-road use, nor winter driving in remote roads. As you say, 2WD is cheaper to buy, simpler to maintain, and offers a more comfy ride. All great factors for me!!!
So unless I decide to tow a tent trailer or M101 type modified trailer with RTT behind my 80, I will most probably be going with a Dodge/CUmmins solution for my envisioned northern trips. Pickup a truck this Fall or next Spring, baseline it or fix that needs fixing, then get a used camper for the back (reasonably priced and sized, I don't need a house back there!), and head out.
Ping me offline about your truck, as I might be interested in getting something from a known source. You're probably looking to sell sooner than I'm willing/able to buy, but one thing for sure: there's plenty of Diesel / Cummins trucks out there - key is to get a good one! I've had a couple mid-early 90's come through here for decent money (less than $10K) but they were both quite high mileage (300-400,000 miles). I know the engine, in theory, with proper maintenance, can take that, but I'm not so sure about the rest of the Dodge truck! :rolleyes:
Anyway, thanks again for those informed thoughts, borne of experience.
Cheers! ;)
 
it has roughly 290K on it.
auto with a funky OD unit... i seldom use it since this is a primary tow vehicle but when i do use the O/D it seems to kick in and out a lot. not sure what is up with that, one guy said it was normal, another said it is the throttle positioning sensor and another said "your towing with it so quit worrying" so i stopped being concerned.
brakes are new all around
front end steering parts are new as well.
tires are in great shape
body is really good but parts have been repainted in the past
box liner (thick plastic type)
cap leaks at all windows so removal and reseal is needed
sliding window rear of cab and front of cap.
exhaust is good
class 3 hitch and wiring
will pass safety with no issues
starts excellent to -28C (coldest it got here last winter)
i figured i would get stuck more often with 2wd but the bloody thing just walks as long as it has some weight in the back.
previous seller said it has a limited slip in the back but i never checked BUT it does feel like it when i turn a corner on hard ground.
good looking truck
i also built a shelving unit behind the front seats for storing stuff out of sight and it looks good and works excellent.

$6500 is what i want for it.
cheers
 
Thanks Wayne, great thorough description. Sounds like the kind of truck I could use, at a price I can live with. Unfortunately timing may not be the best for me at this time, due to other commitments (house and cottage upgrades etc.). Later in the Fall would be a better time, but sounds like you want to sell it sooner.
Anyway, you've given me a good idea of what I can get for that kind of price. I'd have to factor in putting a used camper on the back ($3000-5000, I don't know).
Once I'm no longer working my day job (next Spring) I can use a truck like that to get around (ie. no commuting to do), haul stuff to and from the cottage.
Cheers.
--Robert
p.s. if you have a couple of pics of the truck, maybe you could email them to me. Thanks.
 
I've spent a lot of miles behind the wheel of an 80-- just finished a Costa Rica -> San Francisco overland trip with my Dad and my dog.

I've borrowed my buddy's Dodge 4wd truck. (large).

here are some thoughts:
the dodge is far sight louder. After an hour, I'm pretty glad to stop driving it.
the Cruiser is a far sight slower. The dodge holds 75mph, easy, the cruiser is working to do the same.

the Dodge will have easier parts/mechanics in North America
the Cruiser will last longer and have better parts/mechanics in a random bush town in the 3rd world.

the Cruiser is more capable in a very rough offroad situation
the Dodge is more capable uphill on the highway with a bunch of junk (or towing)

I think that the Dodge has a larger (stock) fuel tank


If I were driving from here to Alaska and back, with just my dog, I'd probably drive the Dodge and buy some noise-cancelling headphones (and install some sound-deadening mats). With a simply pop-up bed camper.

If I were driving from here to Patagonia and back, I would absolutely take the Cruiser with a roof top tent.

Sounds like you would prefer the dodge for your trip(s).

The baselining of either rig will matter more than the rig itself. Nothing ruins a trip like a lot of pesky breakdowns.

Best of luck with whatever you choose.
 
Hi SandCruiser.
Thanks for your useful comparison of 80 and Dodge diesel for road trips etc. All your observations seem very pertinent and accurate. Indeed, for my use (western and northern Canada/US), the Dodge seems the vehicle of choice for many reasons, with some caveats that you pointed out.

I'm pretty well done baselining the 80 (some axle seals left to do), and don't relish the thought of baselining another vehicle, but hope to buy a good one (like the one Crushers indicated) where a lot of that baselining is already taken care of. I know the Dodges suffer from transmissions that require overhauling after 100,000 miles or so, so would be on the watch for that. Mind you, my 80 has had the 5 speed and clutch replaced around 160,000 kms (one of the few receipts I got with it).

I just completed sound-proofing the cargo area of my 80, and it has made a noticeable difference (diesel engine, stainless exhaust with pretty well straight through SS muffler). So if I'm buying an older Dodge (don't want to invest a lot of money in one, since I'm going to be keeping the 80, and may well sell the Dodge after I've satisfied my need to travel those Northern roads), I may have to consider doing something similar up front, given that I will be driving that thing for hours on end to reach my destinations. So comfort is a consideration. I'm sure the newer ones feel and sound more like cars in the drivers' area, but I don't have the money for that. Probably a Gen 2 Dodge (early 90's), which have a reputation for being relatively simple and occasionally bullet-proof).

Glad you had a great trip, and thanks for the useful opinion.
--Robert
 
Hi, while I'm a SWB man for trails lots of guys in my club wheel hard with their 80's, most of those with either 1HZ or 1HD-T engines. Granted they don't run the AWD set-up that you have and do run lower gearing, 4.88, 5.29/ 35's and 5spds. Different set-up for a different purpose. For your purpose, touring, I agree with Rick (rchalmers) How much room do you need? How many folks are going with you? The answer to these two things will dictate, how much stuff you need to take, i.e. luggage, creature comforts and spare parts. Exactly what type of trip are you planning, i.e., mostly driving on the highway, paved back roads, hopping from town to town or national park to national park, etc. Or are you planning to camp, hunt, and fish your way through N.A. My point is the former trip really means you can spend up possibly up to 60% of your nights in local motels or cabins in national parks. The latter trip means that you will hanging your hat in a tent /camper most nights. I suggest that you think that trip plan through a bit more and each of your way points. For me if I'm going from park to park backpacking with family that is a different trip than if I'm making an extended solo road trip from city to city taking in the sights and visiting family and friends along the way.

Once you have figured out the kind of trip you want to have, who is going and how much stuff you need to haul for that group and that purpose then you will be primed to decide on transport. For me if you are going on an extended sight seeing trip with a little camping thrown in along the way with just you and 1 or 2 others then I'd take the well serviced 80. Add the factory air package. My 1HZ came with the compressor mounted on a bracket so there should be no drama in doing that. The 80's here are really roomy and came factory with 2 jump seat in the back either or both of which can be pulled to add storage space. The 1HZ will haul a trailer with no drama. As to trailer ideas, go to the trailer sub forum here. Guys are doing all kinds of really creative, nice looking things with used trailers setting them up for just this kind of trip. This includes trailers with regular storage in the trailer "bay" and pop up tents on top. These fold down nice and neat when closed acting as a hard roof over all of the stuff that you have stored below.

There are only two advantages to the Cummins camper in this discussion: 1) you are planning to travel with a group, 3-4+, and (2) you are worried about getting the rig serviced along the way. If you are going with a group or you have folks that have special needs then go Cummins hard shell camper. Permanent space for the group, creature comforts. Again if you do a search in the expedition sub forum under storage options in an 80 you will see lots of ways to configure your space for an extended touring trip but if the significant other wants an indoor stand up kitchen then you need the camper shell. As to service. since most school busses in the U.S. run Cummins engines as well as Dodge trucks you really shouldn't have trouble finding someone to diesel service on it along the way. Sad but true, you are much more likely to find a mechanic who in N.A. who is familiar with a Cummins diesel than with a Toyota one. If you are going with just you and someone riding shotgun you'll most likely be ok in the 80 you have and that you know. spend your time and money getting her setup that way you want for gear storage and trailer hauling, maybe even a project getting a used trailer ready for your adventure. Good luck
 
Thanks Volcano, for the thoughtful and thought-inspiring post. Indeed, I need to spend some time imagining the kind of trip I'm envisioning, which may well be a combination of the two you suggest (i.e., mostly driving on the highway, paved back roads, hopping from town to town or national park to national park, etc. Or are you planning to camp, hunt, and fish your way through N.A.)

Unless my 18 year old son or 19 year old daughter chooses to accompany me for part of the journey, I would expect that I will be traveling solo for some or most of it (unless I get myself a canine companion!), well for the long trips anyway (where I would likely be joined up here and there by my GF - who alas, cannot retire for a few more years yet- who might fly in and meet me somewhere for a week or two. For shorter trips (week or two), there might be two of us, but with need of creature comforts (GF). Pushing 55, I admit to also increasingly need greater creature comforts (ie. comfortable bed to sleep in, rather than a tent - ground or roof based!). Plus it would be nice to have a place to hole up in if weather turns nasty (truck camper would be more comfortable in that regard, obviously, than the back of an 80 setup with a sleeping platform!). There would obviously be a need to stay at motel or provincial/state/federal campground from time to time, to make use of laundry and shower facilities. But I'm hoping to also do a fair bit of boondocking along the way. Travelling on the cheap so to speak.

Anyway, I'll spend some time mentally mapping this out, and as you suggest, this will help me nail down the kind of rig I would need for the different types of trips.

Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts.

--Robert
 
i had this discussion with my uncle recently. he was thinking of buying a motorhome or a big assed trailer and of course having to upgrade his pickup. he also has a brand new diesel jetta.

my suggestions was, forget the trailer and stay at motels. for the price of a trailer and a truck you can rent a LOT of motel rooms or BB or on those very rare occasions rent a motor home. the price of fuel he would be saving between the 2 setups would pay his fuel.

if you are not really into the rugged out door camping then an air mattress in the back of the 80 for those rare nights at the fishing hole, a motel might be a better way to go as well as a more fuel efficent vehicle.

me, i can sleep on the roof rack, in the back of the dodge, on the bench seat or in a motel but NOTHING matches the bed at home with my arm around the old lady and the dogs sleeping at my feet.
 
We have a Saying down here ¨toyota is toyota¨that means that there are trucks that get de job done but never like a Toyota!:grinpimp: . I have travel, modify and test all kinds of 4x4´s and the quality ,reliability of Toyota is what makes them rule down here, I had attached a picture with the config you want in your cruiser, this photo is on the southest point of South America called Punta Gallinas hope you like it.
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When we got to the camping site just on hook the trailer and done , you can also put the roof tent on the top of the trailer.
PS stay on the firm part of the sand ;)
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Just on hook and GO!
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if you've already thought about selling the toyota. it probably doesent mean that much to you anyways so i'd say sell her
 
Drastically simplifying the fairly significant differences between the vehicles you're considering leaves you with two vehicle type choices as I see it:

1) Enclosed wagon/SUV.

2) PU w/camper.

The first is fine for solo travel. The second is almost mandatory for 2+(plus dog, plus kid, etc).

I have made this choice on several occasions depending on my personal relationships at the time. The one option would council against is the trailer option. You're retiring, footloose, and can go wherever your want at the drop of a hat. Who want's to go back for the trailer when you just found a new campsite by the river and the fish are rising? Who wants to leave the trailer behind if you need a tow? An occasional evening in town for a good meal with new-found friends is less problematic with out hauling a trailer into an urban zone.

I also personally like the 2WD option for a three season travel vehicle. Not everybody needs a full house cocked-&-locked 4X4 for bumming around north America. A good rear locker, a little ground clearance, and some decent tires will get you pretty much wherever you want to go.
 
or
a number of people are using these for their medium duty expeditions:
Luxury Imports - Calgary, Alberta
diesel
4wd with H/L range
auto or 5 speed
tons of room
reliable unless severly abused
comfortable.
the low roof works for me but the high roof with crystal lite skylites are an amazingly bright units.

i have driven a couple and they are like the old VW bus, for those that are not in a hurry and want to enjoy the country. i would have no issue taking something like this for a 1-2 year trip around the Americas.
 
or
a number of people are using these for their medium duty expeditions:
Luxury Imports - Calgary, Alberta
diesel
4wd with H/L range
auto or 5 speed
tons of room
reliable unless severly abused
comfortable.
the low roof works for me but the high roof with crystal lite skylites are an amazingly bright units.

i have driven a couple and they are like the old VW bus, for those that are not in a hurry and want to enjoy the country. i would have no issue taking something like this for a 1-2 year trip around the Americas.

NICE COOL Van ! But I can put my Dodge Cummins anywhere an FJ80 can go, I can prove it, plus I can get 22-23 MPG with power to spare...Just sayin.
 
i had this discussion with my uncle recently. he was thinking of buying a motorhome or a big assed trailer and of course having to upgrade his pickup. he also has a brand new diesel jetta.

my suggestions was, forget the trailer and stay at motels. for the price of a trailer and a truck you can rent a LOT of motel rooms or BB or on those very rare occasions rent a motor home. the price of fuel he would be saving between the 2 setups would pay his fuel.

if you are not really into the rugged out door camping then an air mattress in the back of the 80 for those rare nights at the fishing hole, a motel might be a better way to go as well as a more fuel efficent vehicle.

me, i can sleep on the roof rack, in the back of the dodge, on the bench seat or in a motel but NOTHING matches the bed at home with my arm around the old lady and the dogs sleeping at my feet.

Thanks Wayne. As you say, spending nights in motels or B&B's has a lot going for it, compared to acquisition/maintenance/depreciation costs of equipping oneself with a travel/camping rig. Especially for extended weekend and 1-2 week trips. However, I would imagine that if one was intending on being on the road, exploring and discovering things over several weeks or a couple of months, the truck/camper may become more cost effective, due to sleeping inside, ability to cook meals in the back.

On the other hand, there is merit in venturing out in a comfortable economical car or small suv, travelling light. An aunt and uncle of mine traversed N-A to Alaska and back in a big old car (with another couple in the back).

I flew up to GooseBay Labrador a few years ago, to buy a Land-Rover Defender from the base, and drive it back across Labrador and down the wilds of Quebec (what gave me a taste to go back North). We stayed in hotels driving down, because I didn't have camping gear with me and truck wasn't configured for sleeping obviously. But here I am driving this tough 4x4 on hundred's of KMs of gravel roads (at places fairly rough), feeling on top of the world, driving the perfect vehicle for those roads, and all of a sudden being passed by a Toyota Echo (or other such car) like a bat out of hell. I would think those econoboxes would be worse for wear from those tortuous drives, whereas it was just a regular drive for the LR. But then again, who knows, maybe THEY were on to a better thing :)

I agree with you: nothing beat one's own bed at home! Though I would imagine that one could setup a pretty comfortable sleeping area in a truck camper, which would have the advantage over motels of being (1) clean (2) consistently comfy (3) quiet and (4) cheaper!
 
if you've already thought about selling the toyota. it probably doesent mean that much to you anyways so i'd say sell her

Well, I wouldn't say I'm at THAT point yet! ;)
I'd want to drive a couple of diesel Dodges before taking the plunge.

I had the exhaust system replaced last summer on the 80 (it was full of holes) to stainless, with a pretty well straight-through muffler, and now the back of the cargo bay reverberates at a tiring frequency on the highway. Applied noise reduction material to the back, and still noisy. If I was going to venture out on the road with the 80, I'd do something with the exhaust, because that kind of noise would get very tiring very quickly!
 
Drastically simplifying the fairly significant differences between the vehicles you're considering leaves you with two vehicle type choices as I see it:

1) Enclosed wagon/SUV.

2) PU w/camper.

The first is fine for solo travel. The second is almost mandatory for 2+(plus dog, plus kid, etc).

I have made this choice on several occasions depending on my personal relationships at the time. The one option would council against is the trailer option. You're retiring, footloose, and can go wherever your want at the drop of a hat. Who want's to go back for the trailer when you just found a new campsite by the river and the fish are rising? Who wants to leave the trailer behind if you need a tow? An occasional evening in town for a good meal with new-found friends is less problematic with out hauling a trailer into an urban zone.

I also personally like the 2WD option for a three season travel vehicle. Not everybody needs a full house cocked-&-locked 4X4 for bumming around north America. A good rear locker, a little ground clearance, and some decent tires will get you pretty much wherever you want to go.

Thanks for that. You've captured the two options in a nutshell nicely. Plus, like you, the idea of a trailer is less appealing than it was at first, for all the reasons you state. I had an opportunity of buying a nice M101a trailer recently for $800, that I thought I could setup with a lid and RTT, but quickly dismissed it as something I don't see myself comfortable in lugging and living in! If I was 25 or even 35, maybe, but I'm beyond that stage of life I'm afraid... Comfort is a more important criteria for me with advancing age.

Thanks for the vote of confidence on 2WD truck with camper.

Cheers.
 

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