Demolished 3B Piston Sleeves- what caused this? (1 Viewer)

[FJBen]

I'll throw some pictures up tonight. So far it's a helped drop EGTs maybe 100deg. The unit is a small one from Frozen Boost (Type 116) I believe, I have a 1 quart reservoir, and approx 10×10×2 radiator, Bosch 12v pump to move full coolant. I'm going to hook up my remote barbecue probe to the radiator and test temps in different conditions to get an idea of how cool it's keeping the coolant, and the i/c.

So I've bled air out of the system before using the crack a line method and this misfire feels more like a stumble like partial or incomplete combustion. I'm loathe to pull the head because I just got this engine installed in April...

I'll keep diagnosing until head pulling is imminent. I'm also still playing with fuel settings to find the happy egt vs power zone. I'm pretty happy with 10psi max boost, and I get to 10 psi and hold it almost instantly with this little turbo. Even on the flat road cruising at 65, it is pegged at 10 psi and 1000 -1100 EGTs. I think I have a bit more room to increase fuel, it's not spewing black smoke yet

Cool, will be interested to see your intercooler setup.

I hear you on not wanting to pull it back apart. What turbo do you have?

 

[Sykoslug]

Cool, will be interested to see your intercooler setup.

I hear you on not wanting to pull it back apart. What turbo do you have?

I went with a Borg/Warner S1BG (schwitzer) , but I chose it because of the a/r and it's similarity to the ct26. I had a different Borg Warner on there but it didn't spool up until 2000rpms... Kinda late for the 3b to party.

When I tracked down the S1BG, the dealer asked if it was for a snow mobile . It spools up and 1500rpm and gets to full boost by 2000ish rpm

 

[FJBen]

I went with a Borg/Warner S1BG (schwitzer) , but I chose it because of the a/r and it's similarity to the ct26. I had a different Borg Warner on there but it didn't spool up until 2000rpms... Kinda late for the 3b to party.

When I tracked down the S1BG, the dealer asked if it was for a snow mobile . It spools up and 1500rpm and gets to full boost by 2000ish rpm

Yeah the factory CT26 for the 13BT is sized wrong too IMO. It's a bit laggy, it's the same turbo for the 12HT. A smaller 7cm housing would help the 13BT more. I'll add it to my list of future upgrades along with intercooler, shocks, winch....

 

[gerg]

A 6cm would be even better but your also dealing with a large old school turbine.

 

[FJBen]

A 6cm would be even better but your also dealing with a large old school turbine.

billet wheel, 6cm or 7cm would really help responsiveness. What would you recommend for a 13BT?

 

[Sykoslug]

billet wheel, 6cm or 7cm would really help responsiveness. What would you recommend for a 13BT?

These are the measurements on the turbo I use. Part no: 313296

 

[gerg]

What ct26 would I recommend for the 13bt? None actually. Just a bad fit no matter what you choose, and there’s not many choices.

 

[FJBen]

What ct26 would I recommend for the 13bt? None actually. Just a bad fit no matter what you choose, and there’s not many choices.

NOt too hijack more, but I was thinking like some trim of the GT2052 size might be the right way to go. For now, I'll just keep my newly rebuilt CT26 as it's working and fits without any mods.

 

[Nz Nath]

I put a holset he221w on my 13bt, after it was mentioned in the gturbo alternative thread. I couldn't be happier, it spools up early and will max out a 30psi boost guage at high revs if the wastegate line is disconnected. Obviously it's not a straight bolt on option, but worth the little bit of fab work if you can do it.

I recently ran my truck with the sliding plate/cam removed from the governor to confirm nothing was holding back fueling, (no torque control, boost compensator or full load stop), and the holset spools up quick enough that the black smoke on take off and gear changes could be lived with.

 

[FJBen]

I put a holset he221w on my 13bt, after it was mentioned in the gturbo alternative thread. I couldn't be happier, it spools up early and will max out a 30psi boost guage at high revs if the wastegate line is disconnected. Obviously it's not a straight bolt on option, but worth the little bit of fab work if you can do it.

I recently ran my truck with the sliding plate/cam removed from the governor to confirm nothing was holding back fueling, (no torque control, boost compensator or full load stop), and the holset spools up quick enough that the black smoke on take off and gear changes could be lived with.

Nice, I jsut looked up some info on that. I am familiar with the HX35 but not the HE221w. That seems like a great fit. Do you have any pictures of your setup?

 

[Sykoslug]

Here's the pics of my set up...brackets are made just need to drill holes and paint... What do you think of the numbers on my gauges?
FYI: flat ground, preturbo egt thermocouple, 33x11x16 MTR, lightly loaded, A/C blasting, 100deg F outside, 150 deg F intake pipe temp measured externally.

 

[Nz Nath]

Converting to metric, that's about 500c egt at 105kmh. That's similar to the holset. I think boost is slightly higher on the holset, maybe 11 or 12psi at cruise, and egt would be at 500c going into a bit of a headwind, and as low as 390c with a tailwind at 100kmh.

My 13bt is in a land rover not a bj, but I'd imagine there wouldn't be much difference to install. The holset is much smaller than the ct26.

The hard part of fitting the he221w is the oil drain. The turbo is intended to go on a down pointing manifold, so when you clock the centre housing for vertical oil drain on the up pointing manifold, you have to route the drain past the manifold/turbo flanges and there's bugger all room.

 

[FJBen]

Here's the pics of my set up...brackets are made just need to drill holes and paint... What do you think of the numbers on my gauges?
FYI: flat ground, preturbo egt thermocouple, 33x11x16 MTR, lightly loaded, A/C blasting, 100deg F outside, 150 deg F intake pipe temp measured externally.View attachment 2336274View attachment 2336275View attachment 2336271View attachment 2336272View attachment 2336273

Nice, that fits in there pretty good. Looks like oil changes will require removing the intercooler part way, but thats not too bad to do. You definitely have more room than I have to work with in the BJ74. My underhood is PACKED.

Those temps seem pretty normal. I run anywhere from 600Fish to 1000ish at 65mph on flat with tailwind/headwind sorta thing.

 

[FJBen]

Converting to metric, that's about 500c egt at 105kmh. That's similar to the holset. I think boost is slightly higher on the holset, maybe 11 or 12psi at cruise, and egt would be at 500c going into a bit of a headwind, and as low as 390c with a tailwind at 100kmh.

My 13bt is in a land rover not a bj, but I'd imagine there wouldn't be much difference to install. The holset is much smaller than the ct26.

The hard part of fitting the he221w is the oil drain. The turbo is intended to go on a down pointing manifold, so when you clock the centre housing for vertical oil drain on the up pointing manifold, you have to route the drain past the manifold/turbo flanges and there's bugger all room.

View attachment 2336316
View attachment 2336313View attachment 2336314

Looks good!
Yeah, thats what I'm a little worried about with a different turbo, is the mods to make it fit, and how tight they are to work around on a 13BT. I would do a different intercooler on my BJ74, probably a top mount Water to air just because there isn't hardly any room for an air to air up front without a chunk of work.

 

[Sykoslug]

Looks good!
Yeah, thats what I'm a little worried about with a different turbo, is the mods to make it fit, and how tight they are to work around on a 13BT. I would do a different intercooler on my BJ74, probably a top mount Water to air just because there isn't hardly any room for an air to air up front without a chunk of work.

I'm noticing a bit of heat soak into the intercooler where it sits above the valve cover. I was toying with venting the hood and making a simple heat shield that sits under the I/C... I would also go with a larger radiator then what I'm using. It works but I think one could do better to drop temps closer to ambient vs the 145-155deg F it seems to be achieving. I also noticed the A/C really just works against everything. The load from the compressor is noticeable, the heat from the condenser soaks right into the radiator. So summer driving is kind of poopy for "performance".

 

[Sykoslug]

Nice, that fits in there pretty good. Looks like oil changes will require removing the intercooler part way, but thats not too bad to do. You definitely have more room than I have to work with in the BJ74. My underhood is PACKED.

Those temps seem pretty normal. I run anywhere from 600Fish to 1000ish at 65mph on flat with tailwind/headwind sorta thing.

Yes oil changes and valve adjustments will require moving the I/C away. But it's not too bad, I left enough slack in the coolant hoses to lay the whole unit towards the turbo side of the engine. I just have to disconnect my boost pressure line, the mounting bracket and loosen a few clamps. Everything else sits nicely out of the way.

Glad to hear my #'s are comparable. I still want to go up steep hills without having to get into 3rd gear and 35mph... But I'm not sure that it's possible.

 

[FJBen]

I'm noticing a bit of heat soak into the intercooler where it sits above the valve cover. I was toying with venting the hood and making a simple heat shield that sits under the I/C... I would also go with a larger radiator then what I'm using. It works but I think one could do better to drop temps closer to ambient vs the 145-155deg F it seems to be achieving. I also noticed the A/C really just works against everything. The load from the compressor is noticeable, the heat from the condenser soaks right into the radiator. So summer driving is kind of poopy for "performance".

I've heard that alot with top mount air intercoolers, so it doesn't surpise me that the A2W heat soaks as well some. Well, add to the fact you are in Vegas in 100 degree temps, blasting A/C, a 90hp stock engine pushing 4600lbs of brick on 33's. The turbo definitely helps, but thats some heat.

I agree a bigger heat exchanger would help. The key for Air to Water to work is a big ol heat exchanger. Looks like you could fit a much bigger one up front. A heat shield or some thermal material might really help knock a few degrees of the heat. I wonder if a smaller barrel style would heatsoak less?

Hood vents/louvres might help to get some of that heat out of there. Possibly a scoop directing air right onto that intercooler would also help the temps I imagine as well.

 

[Sykoslug]

I've heard that alot with top mount air intercoolers, so it doesn't surpise me that the A2W heat soaks as well some. Well, add to the fact you are in Vegas in 100 degree temps, blasting A/C, a 90hp stock engine pushing 4600lbs of brick on 33's. The turbo definitely helps, but thats some heat.

I agree a bigger heat exchanger would help. The key for Air to Water to work is a big ol heat exchanger. Looks like you could fit a much bigger one up front. A heat shield or some thermal material might really help knock a few degrees of the heat. I wonder if a smaller barrel style would heatsoak less?

Hood vents/louvres might help to get some of that heat out of there. Possibly a scoop directing air right onto that intercooler would also help the temps I imagine as well.

I think it would look awesome with a scoop! And I might go to a larger radiator exchanger, but my dimension are a bit off from anything I have found available. Then I need to find a home for the heat exchanger I have... yadda yadda. More projects for a future time. I'm going to keep it where it is at and see how she does for a bit then maybe make changes.

 

[haryv]

Liner protrusion is critical and easily overlooked.

what's your experience of repairing or rebuilding to 3B motor? I have a BJ 60 that I have not driven in 4 years and it needs a lot of work . The 4th our number four piston is smoking and has low compression

 

[gerg]

Well I rebuilt one many years ago. Had sleeves pressed in and my machinist didn't check liner protrusion correctly and I was stupid and trusted it was done right. One area of a liner was proud and it kept causing HG failures. Extremely frustrating. Since then I've had good success with carbon cleaners and would need a pretty darn good reason to rebuild an engine to the extent of pressing in new liners. I'd go with honing if it was at all possible.