Cyl 7 misfire, but not coil pack according to dealer...sigh... (1 Viewer)

[mabrodis]

This is not on one of my vehicles, but on my sister's '99 LC with ~89K miles, vehicle has been running/idling rough for the past few days and then a check engine light came on...code was cylinder 7 misfire...the most obvious culprit for this is the cyl 7 coil pack, and that is what I would have tested/replaced if it was my vehicle, however, my sister took it to the stealership today (Metro Toyota in Cleveland, OH) and told them all what she knew (i.e. what I told her about what I gleaned on here), and according to the dealership (service secretary is all she could talk to though, not the actual mechanic) the coil pack is NOT the problem, so they are looking at the wiring harness and apparently spending alot of time (vehicle has been there for 8 hours now and they gave her a free rental car for the night) doing it.

I'm suspicious that the problem IS the coil pack and they either didn't even try that or who knows what...

So, does anyone know of a instance when the wiring harness leading to a coil pack has proved to be faulty (nothing has ever been touched on this vehicle other than oil changes and coolant changes)? In my mind I'm thinking the stealership is full of crap by saying it's not the coil pack, but I don't know that forsure...anyone else gone through this misfire on a cylinder and had it be a wiring harness?

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[fj55-100]

never seen a harness on the lex side . First the coil then possibily an injector , not much else can just be on just one cylinder .
fj55-100

 

[hoser]

Just a story that comes to mind... my buddies Acura was having an electrical problem. Code said it was "XYZ" sensor. Mechanic had to remove the intake manifold to get to it... turns out, field mice had gotten up in there (for warmth?) and chewed through the wiring.

 

[DMX84]

How about the Plug?

 

[mabrodis]

Just a story that comes to mind... my buddies Acura was having an electrical problem. Code said it was "XYZ" sensor. Mechanic had to remove the intake manifold to get to it... turns out, field mice had gotten up in there (for warmth?) and chewed through the wiring.

About a week ago my stepdad started his Subaru and was driving to the main road and it was running horribly, would stall at times, had to keep it almost floored to keep it going, he finally popped the hood while it was doing it's lurching idle and saw sparks all over in the engine bay...turns out some animal (squirrel probably) had gotten in there and eaten chucks out of 2 plug wires...luckily it was only the plug wires since those are simple to replace not like a chunk of wiring harness...odd...

The plug itself is a good idea, but I would think (holy hell they better have) checked that at the dealership...

Thanks,
Mark

 

[mabrodis]

Update...sigh...just talked to my sister, the official diagnosis is a bad injector, and according to the dealership the injector "cannot be cleaned, so it will have to be replaced"...and the price for the new injector $545 and she will have the rental car till monday since the dealership had to order the part...argh...she told them to go ahead and do it, since it's her only vehicle and basically nothing else she can do, but damnit that's frustrating...maybe more frustrating since I'm suspicious of anything the dealers says or touches, but that's just me...

 

[hoser]

List price on an OEM fuel injector is $153.

 

[mabrodis]

List price on an OEM fuel injector is $153.

Seriously? Hmm...I wonder if the $545 was the complete bill, but still how much shop-time can a shop charge if they should be able to figure out the problem quickly, they have all the tools and are soposed experts with all this stuff...I continue my dislike of dealerships...

 

[hoser]

Yeah, you can double check that with the dealer but I've never heard of any injector, OEM nor high performance that cost over $300/ea (though they probably exist). Imagine ordering 8 new injectors at $545 and getting the bill for $4360!

 

[jp213a]

the official diagnosis is a bad injector, and the price for the new injector $545 ...

Have the dealership save the old injector for your sister. This at least gives her some assurance they installed a new injector. If you are really skeptical of the dealers integrity, have her send you the old injector and run the following test: 1) check the resistance across the injector coil with an ohm meter; the shop manual gives 13.4 - 14.2 ohms at 68 degrees F as the acceptable range. 2) connect the injector coil to a 12 volt battery and see if the injector opens.

The shop manual injector test using the Special Service Tool (SST) checks the flow rate of gas through the injector for 15 seconds (after removing it from engine). The acceptable range is 1.9 - 2.3 ounces in 15 seconds.

List price for a new injector is $153.73. That leaves $391.27 for labor. At a shop rate of $100/hour, that's almost four hours to diagnose and change out an injector. If the bad injector was confirmed by a ohm meter reading, I'd say your sister was ripped-off (the ohm meter reading can be taken with the injector in place). If a flow test was necessary, four hours is more reasonable but still high. There should be a flat-rate for changing an injector and the dealer shouldn't charge any more than the flat-rate.

 

[hoser]

The flat rate for "replacing injector" comes up as 3.1 hours. Doesn't say whether that is for one or eight injectors but I would think you could do all of them in that amount of time. The procedure looks straight forward.

 

[donco]

Could it be that during a prior starter repair job some hack mechanic messed up the connector or the end if the injector? Gotta disconnect them to get the manifold off.

Bet they buried some of the "bad coil" diagnostic hours in the injector replacement quote.

 

[mabrodis]

Could it be that during a prior starter repair job some hack mechanic messed up the connector or the end if the injector? Gotta disconnect them to get the manifold off.

Bet they buried some of the "bad coil" diagnostic hours in the injector replacement quote.

Nope on the prior starter repair, as the starter has never been pulled on this vehicle to my knowledge, she bought it with under 30K miles and has never touched it (I did a starter contact job on her ex-husband's '99)...

I would not think they would have burned much time with the "bad coil pack" note when she brought it in, since it takes about 5 minutes to do the ohm checks on the coil pack to see if it's in line and maybe 10 minutes to swap in either another coil pack or one from a nearby cylinder to see if the problem stays with cyl 7 or moves with that coil pack. My guess is they are claiming the full 3.1 hours for the injector work, but I will have her get the old injector, that is a good idea...

Thanks guys...
Mark